Why do we Existance?

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Saya

Then its a very depressing and pointless point of life, isn't it? Just as good as saying there's no point because its not necessary.

Thanks Fruitbat. Good to know SOMEBODY cares <3

You are welcome hun.

But there is a reason for existing. Have you read The Maison by Teresa of Avila (the first St Teresa) back in the 1600's?

She is uneducated so the writing is all over the place, but there were reports of her levitating 2inches off the bed, glowing etc. Caroline Myss wrote a book on the subject.

God is within all of us, we just need to find it. People shouldn't be going off about whose God/religion is better than the other persons, because if we were religious we should be looking to better ourselves not worship some other dude who did it first.

Gods should be more like a really good guidance counsellor. "This is how I reached enlightenment, have a bash at it yourself. My way may not work for you so you will need to tweek it a little."

Everyone gets so bogged down in bleedin' labels. Why should being a catholic/jew/christian/buddhist et al make your religion better than the next persons?

I haven't read any bibles or koran or other books, but as far as my ignorant understanding of all religions, they are pretty much about being the best person we can be.

Its the fanatics who take them to extremes.

So that's why we exist - to be the best person we can be. God is in our hearts not on our mantlepieces.

[KontanKarite]

Fruitbat, that's an incredibly stupid fucking post. Your argument is absolutely no weight whatsoever. At least religions like Christianity have a NATION OF PEOPLE backing it up. You're clearly a deluded individual.

[Despanan]

Nah, they CAN behave in a Christian manner and still have the pussified version of "this is what I believe but you don't have to"

Well I mean in the strictest sense, yes they physically CAN do that (and many do) but if you claim to be a Christian who believes in the "literal truth of the bible" but doesn't aggressively/forcibly convert others, stone gays, and tell everyone around them to submit to god and act like a cave-man, then you're a massive hypocrite AT BEST.

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Fruitbat, that's an incredibly stupid fucking post. Your argument is absolutely no weight whatsoever. At least religions like Christianity have a NATION OF PEOPLE backing it up. You're clearly a deluded individual.

Thank you. I wasn't arguing for weight, I was posing a question to Saya (whose question was being ignored, by the long posts which I did not read).

Maybe I'm doing it wrong by including Saya's quote in my post. I just assumed it was obvious I was talking to her?

But hey I'm just a deluded person and happy to be one. Isn't every religion a delusion? Asking people to believe in some dude who lived a long time ago and the only evidence of his existance is a pile of words in a pile of books?

So in 2000 years time, someone could turn to the Superman comic books and say "He is a God. He did wonderful things for earth, Worship him?" (flippant example I know). And if there is enough people saying it, then everyone will believe it?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Fruitbat, that's an incredibly stupid fucking post. Your argument is absolutely no weight whatsoever. At least religions like Christianity have a NATION OF PEOPLE backing it up. You're clearly a deluded individual.

Not at all, Christian mysticism and Sufi Islam go along those terms, true she doesn't label herself but its not a new idea and backed up by other people. I don't really give religions weight by the number of its followers, either, given how much of the population was forced to follow a religion by pain of death at times.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Saya

Not at all, Christian mysticism and Sufi Islam go along those terms.

Yes because the Elite Gothic Organization that one dude was hawking is such a great example of legitimate religion.

Hang out at a Ren-fair if you want someone to tell you about the magical powers you can attain through careful practice, you'll probably get a free organic soap sample at least.

[Saya]

Eh? Sufi Islam is legit, very comparable to Buddhism in fact, and I do believe that there is evidence that the two religions borrowed from each other, as religions tend to do. Ever hear of Rumi? Not unless its the "mysticism" you're talking about, it doesn't mean you get superpowers through prayer, its cultivating a relationship with God, not too far from the enlightenment idea some Hindus have come to think of it (enlightenment will bring you unification with God). I think the more New Agey stuff might be what you're thinking of (and that I chose to ignore) but traditionally its a more prayer and meditation focused way of practicing faith, rather than just bellowing out hymns every Sunday for tradition's sake.

Examples: Gandhi had this approach to his search for God, and the monks in The Brothers Karamazov were mystics.

[TheFeatheredÆtheling]

Originally Posted by Saya

Why does a god need glorifying?

Do you see? I told you that I would answer. Anyway, for me to explain my thoughts on this question, I must point out what the Bible actually says. You guys are going to hate me for posting scripture on gnet, but I think that it's acceptable considering the topic.

(Genesis 1:26-31)
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Verse 26 says that God made mankind in His own image and gave him dominion over the earth. Why did He create mankind? Was He alone? Did He need someone to glorify Him to make Him comlete in some way? One of the mysteries of this passage is that it uses the plural form for God; He was not alone. Anyway, this passage does not say "why" He created mankind, but it says that "indeed it was very good". He created us not because He needed us but because it was good for Him to do so. I shouldn't comment beyond this because the Bible doesn't specify the reasons further that I know of. I'll say that as for questions related to why God did something, In my opinion I don't believe that a creature can understand its Creator beyond what its Creator allows. As mortals, we are severely limited in our perspective; that's just the way it is.

[TheFeatheredÆtheling]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

Who says we cannot give ourselves purpose?

I have.

Also, while self-empowerment of this nature could lead to the greatest amount of self-indulgence, lack of concern for others and depravity, I've found that my own natural sense of empathy for my fellow man leads me to want to do good to them. I believe I have the power to make the world a better place, and that benefits my fellow man AND myself. And I still get to enjoy the depravity!

Alright, Ben. Thank you for the direct answer. Let me ask you one question: is "depravity" really enjoyable to you. I mean, do not ever feel guilty about this "depravity"?

[TheFeatheredÆtheling]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I didn't accuse you. I said the truth. You hold your moral code, based off of Christian fundamentals to be superior to others or there's no reason for you to cleave to that moral code. That's why they're your morals. You wouldn't have the heart to cleave to my codes of morals because mine are based on the absence of a god. My ethics aren't made from a fear of retribution from an angry god or even the submissive love of a god. My own sense of guilt and what I feel is logically right and wrong is good enough.

Ok. I see what you mean. I misunderstood that you were accusing me of something else. After all, your original post said:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Technically, it doesn't matter who god is, just so long as your code of morals are more important than other's?

I thought that you meant that I was simply trying to "one-up" you to boost my ego or something.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

You find in some way, Christianity to be superior morally or there'd be no reason for you to follow it.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

But you see, I have no problems with saying my morals are better than yours BECAUSE I have convictions that they are. They can't be equal either. Either your Christian morals are better than mine or mine are better than yours. Opposing ideas, in the end, can't be equal.

I agree with you. I don't care about equality here anyway; that's not the point. I'm trying to discuss this topic without just angering everyone else. I'm not interested in getting involved in a flame war.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

The very fact that one of the missions of Christianity is to testify and convert others is because they think they're better.

No. They try to convert others not because they believe that their beliefs are better; they try to do so because they believe that their beliefs are true. And if their beliefs are true, trying to convert others is not a selfish thing.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I'm still being civil. I hope you didn't think this was a friendly sharing of ideas where we both came to the conclusion that we're both a-okay morally and cosmically. Your very beliefs condemn me. Good fucking thing it's all an imaginary circle jerk.

No, I didn't think that we would come to the same conclusion. Honestly, I highly doubt that any of the half dozen or so people involved in this conversation will change their beliefs because of our little gnet conversation. However, I'm interested in trying to understand your opinions on the matter nonetheless.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by TheFeatheredÆtheling

To be honest, I don't really agree that it's a "much simpler and provable statement to say there is no god". This topic is multi-faceted. For instance, is it really simpler or more provable to say (essentially, and correct me if I'm wrong) that everything came from nothing than to say that a Creator set this physical world in motion? To explain the existence of the physical without the spiritual would not be simple (and I doubt it will ever be provable). I'm not trying to start an argument with you; as I said before, I cannot prove the existence of anything spiritual. Nonetheless, in my opinion, it seems presumptuous to completely discredit an idea that cannot be scientifically disproven in favour of another idea that cannot be (or at least has yet to be)scientifically proven. From an atheist's perspective, what I just said sounds like a cop-out, but actually, science is moving forward quickly. If what I believe is untrue, God will be disproven.

Consider the kind of complexity an all-powerful, all-knowing entity capable of creating entire universes would require, and I think you'll find that God isn't a simple explanation for anything.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

Oh come on.
Don't be THAT Atheist guy.

She was asking for it.

Originally Posted by tears

god hears us as Sinjob said ..
there is a god

Sure sweety, just keep telling yourself that.

[TheFeatheredÆtheling]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Explain why belief in your god is more legitimate than belief in my unicorn bigfoot.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

You must acknowledge, then, that your faith is wholly independent of logic, and based entirely on 'feelings' that cannot be defended on rational terms.

I'm not sure if "faith" can be defined in rational terms ~ probably not ~ but faith is essential for salvation according to the Bible. For example:

(Ephesians 2:8-10)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

I think also that "fearing the Lord" means to have faith in Him; for example:

(Isaiah 8:12-13)
11 For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 “ Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.

And one more... You guys won't like this one, but I'll post it anyway because it's directly related to my perspective:

(1 Corinthians 1:18-20)
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

From an atheistic perspective, you will almost certainly believe that such a verse is a vain "feel-good" statement for those who believe in God about how superior they are to the rest of the world, but you're incorrect. I think that the main message of this verse is to warn one who believes in God that the secular world will not understand God but that God is in control. Essentially, keep faith anyway. They will see such a person is an utter fool (am I wrong?) There you go; I probably just started a huge flame war.........

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Actually, an eminent physicist-- one of the greatest scientific minds of our time-- just said it is possible, that the scientific principles observable to all of us allow for the spontaneous generation the universe.

That's very interesting, and I don't doubt your information here. When there is ample proof for this theory, I'm sure that such information will not be kept a secret for long. The origin of the universe is a hottly-debated topic, after all. Many people want this one settled.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

From where do you derive 'must have been'? Why is it more probable that a god exists and has always existed, independently of science, than that our provable scientific laws have always been operative? Doesn't it follow that this 'Someone' couldn't possibly have come from 'nothing' either, and that he too must have a creator, and that his creator must have a creator-- ad infinitum?

I think that part of the question concerns time itself. Does it make sense according to the laws of science to say that something has always been? There has to be some cause for an effect, right? You can always ask, "but what came before?" Honestly, I suspect that time itself is a constraint of the physical world, and this is how God's creation of our physical word (and His being outside time's confines) makes sense to me. One verse about God's unique relationship to time is:

(2 Peter 3:8,9)
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9

All in all, you (as well as many of the other posters present) doubtless understand science better than I do; I won't deny it. As I said before, I'm no authority on apologetics. You'll have to go elsewhere for a challenging debate concerning the feasability of Creationism. By the way, I think that many of you such as Alan suspect that I'm against science or view it in a negative way. That's not the case. I simply believe that there are things which science cannot nor will ever be able to explain. I know that you don't agree with this, but it's my position.

I've read your ideas concerning visceral empathy, and I understand you for the most part; I don't have any further questions about it.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

I think you've misunderstood what I posted. My dismissal of good and evil was not a declaration that my morality holds all actions and individuals as equal, I merely meant to say that I think actions and individuals can rarely be understood in such stark, uncomplicated terms, and that attempting to force us and the things we do into such a cosmology, into a narrative of 'good vs evil', is never a good idea.
My purpose in life is to maximize my own happiness. That said, my own happiness is linked inextricably with the welfare of my family and of my friends, as well as with the feeling that I'm contributing in a positive way to the society in which I live.

Ok. Thank you and Ben for your direct response to my question. I understand. If I did not believe in God, I think that I would have a similar view of the world.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by TheFeatheredÆtheling

Do you see? I told you that I would answer. Anyway, for me to explain my thoughts on this question, I must point out what the Bible actually says. You guys are going to hate me for posting scripture on gnet, but I think that it's acceptable considering the topic.

(Genesis 1:26-31)
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Verse 26 says that God made mankind in His own image and gave him dominion over the earth. Why did He create mankind? Was He alone? Did He need someone to glorify Him to make Him comlete in some way? One of the mysteries of this passage is that it uses the plural form for God; He was not alone. Anyway, this passage does not say "why" He created mankind, but it says that "indeed it was very good". He created us not because He needed us but because it was good for Him to do so. I shouldn't comment beyond this because the Bible doesn't specify the reasons further that I know of. I'll say that as for questions related to why God did something, In my opinion I don't believe that a creature can understand its Creator beyond what its Creator allows. As mortals, we are severely limited in our perspective; that's just the way it is.

So does got have four limbs, two eyes and a mouth? I thought he was omnipresent, unknowable, a mystery. How are we created in the image of a God who has no image? I know that back before they lost the Ark of The Covenant they thought he WAS finite and a physical being, and the Ark was his seat, so yeah he was walking around in the garden of Eden, but I'm curious as to how Christians console the two very different ideas of God that are in the Bible.

Secondly, we're just here on a whim? That doesn't make you feel as unnecessary as most Christians think atheists much feel? There's no real point, God had angels to sing his praises all day long and would rarely sin, he really didn't need to create humans.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by TheFeatheredÆtheling

I'm not sure if "faith" can be defined in rational terms ~ probably not ~ but faith is essential for salvation according to the Bible. For example:

(Ephesians 2:8-10)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

I think also that "fearing the Lord" means to have faith in Him; for example:

(Isaiah 8:12-13)
11 For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 “ Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.

And one more... You guys won't like this one, but I'll post it anyway because it's directly related to my perspective:

(1 Corinthians 1:18-20)
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

I know that, in the Bible, there can be no salvation without faith, and I know that the Bible instructs Christians to expect persecution and ridicule. The question, however, remains: why do you believe in the Bible? Why is the Bible true rather than the Bhagavad-Gita? Why do you accept the New and Old Testaments, but reject the Koran? Eventually, as I said before, you must concede that your faith is based wholly on your personal 'feelings', which, as you admitted, can't be defended on a rational basis.

From an atheistic perspective, you will almost certainly believe that such a verse is a vain "feel-good" statement for those who believe in God about how superior they are to the rest of the world, but you're incorrect. I think that the main message of this verse is to warn one who believes in God that the secular world will not understand God but that God is in control. Essentially, keep faith anyway.

Those are the same thing.

They will see such a person is an utter fool (am I wrong?) There you go; I probably just started a huge flame war.........

Yes, I think you are wrong. Even in a world that is indeed ruled by your god, I don't think an atheist like myself to be a fool. An atheist merely cleaves to reason, refusing to accept an idea that is uncorroborated by evidence-- were god to offer some real, meaningful proof of his existence, we would by no means continue to deny it, but faith, as you acknowledged, is essential to salvation, and faith, again as you acknowledged, can't be defined in rational terms. Faith is based on vague 'feelings' of unnameable origin, and am I really to blame for lacking those 'feelings'? Will your perfect god really condemn me for it?

I think that part of the question concerns time itself. Does it make sense according to the laws of science to say that something has always been? There has to be some cause for an effect, right? You can always
ask, "but what came before?"

No really. Contemporary science, by way of M-theory, holds that the laws of physics may have been perpetually operative.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by TheFeatheredÆtheling

Alright, Ben. Thank you for the direct answer. Let me ask you one question: is "depravity" really enjoyable to you. I mean, do not ever feel guilty about this "depravity"?

Wow? A question about guilt! Okay, this is an example of how repressed your thinking is (in my opinion) due to your religious beliefs.

To answer directly, I used to feel guilty when I was was carrying around the vestiges of my parents Catholicism on my shoulders. Once I shrugged off those shackles and met the true arbiter of good and evil in the world (my empathy and conscience) I was able to determine that I could have a threesome with 2 adult consenting females and have a great time, as long as I was completely honest about my intentions from the beginning. Since then I have enjoyed many amazing hedonistic adventures, and the only time I've felt guilty was when one of the women I played with did not understand that I did not intend to pursue a romantic relationship at that time. I had been completely honest with her (stating I was not interested in a relationship in plain words up front) and the fault for the misunderstanding was completely hers, so the guilt was actually misplaced, but I felt bad that she felt bad.

I'd like to ask you - what's so great about feeling guilt for things that give people pleasure?

[Despanan]

I'd just like to point out the near Tam Li Hua levels of passive-aggression currently eminating from our fine feathered friend:

Originally Posted by TheFeatheredÆtheling

Do you see? I told you that I would answer. Anyway, for me to explain my thoughts on this question, I must point out what the Bible actually says. You guys are going to hate me for posting scripture on gnet, but I think that it's acceptable considering the topic.

Yes, because clearly we horrid bestial atheists can't stand the holy light of the scripture. The very letters of "John 3:16" burn our whithered eyes and drive us into an unthinking rage.

Come off it. I assure you we're not so consumed by our insane hatred for Jesus that we'll tear out your jugular at the sight of Corinthians.

God, I remember when douchebags tried this on me in highschool. It's as dumb now as it was back then.

Originally Posted by TheFeatheredÆtheling

That's very interesting, and I don't doubt your information here. When there is ample proof for this theory, I'm sure that such information will not be kept a secret for long. The origin of the universe is a hottly-debated topic, after all. Many people want this one settled.

^ I love this one, you might as well have said:

"I'm not going to call you a liar, but you're a liar unless I see this on Sean Hannity tomorrow night".

Honestly dude, It's not a "secret", you're just uninformed. The origin of the Universe is such a hotly debated topic (due to it's policial implications) that people like Kent Hovind, Ben Stein and the like are willing to run campaigns of mis-information just so they can continue to push their lifestyle on the rest of us. I assure you, the scientific community is NOT divided on something like this, it's the Christians who are running around with their fingers in their ears.

[ssj_goku]

[quote=Fruitbat;636721]You are welcome hun.

But there is a reason for existing. Have you read The Maison by Teresa of Avila (the first St Teresa) back in the 1600's?

She is uneducated so the writing is all over the place, but there were reports of her levitating 2inches off the bed, glowing etc. Caroline Myss wrote a book on the subject.

God is within all of us, we just need to find it.
[quote]

This is totally true. i am workkimg on on doing that right now with my friend nathan (he can see auras and does ki blows0.

i can't wait to levatate

[Fruitbat]

[quote=ssj_goku;636751][quote=Fruitbat;636721]You are welcome hun.

But there is a reason for existing. Have you read The Maison by Teresa of Avila (the first St Teresa) back in the 1600's?

She is uneducated so the writing is all over the place, but there were reports of her levitating 2inches off the bed, glowing etc. Caroline Myss wrote a book on the subject.

God is within all of us, we just need to find it.

This is totally true. i am workkimg on on doing that right now with my friend nathan (he can see auras and does ki blows0.

i can't wait to levatate

Maybe we can levitate together

[Catch]

Everyone exists to at least themselves.

(Yah, I have no idea what the point of this thread actually is....)

[ape descendant]

Reason for existence... beer...

Beer is proof that god loves us, and wants us to be happy.
-Benjamin Franklin

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

Reason for existence... beer...

Beer is proof that god loves us, and wants us to be happy.
-Benjamin Franklin

Hell yeah!!


Catch - I don't exist. I'm just a figment of some fuckers stupid imagination.

**swore twice in one post, my bad**

[Catch]

Beer is a great reason to exist. Yes, if we are all true to our virtue we should have someone to care for every aspect of life. All cogs working together for a better future.

[TheFeatheredÆtheling]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

I know that, in the Bible, there can be no salvation without faith, and I know that the Bible instructs Christians to expect persecution and ridicule. The question, however, remains: why do you believe in the Bible? Why is the Bible true rather than the Bhagavad-Gita? Why do you accept the New and Old Testaments, but reject the Koran? Eventually, as I said before, you must concede that your faith is based wholly on your personal 'feelings', which, as you admitted, can't be defended on a rational basis.

Let me say this: I can only judge anything based upon my own perspective; I can only do what's best with what I'm given. If God is really true ~if God really is who He says He is~ God in His wisdom understands this. And from my perspective, the Bible is true and contains the answers to this broken world; this is why I choose to follow what it says.

There is an important implication of this philosophy: if God expects you to believe in Him, He will show you. (I'm entering dangerous territory here by stating something that I cannot directly back up by scripture right now.) Nonetheless, I'll admit that I do not believe that God would condemn you or anyone who He'll not reveal Himself to. How might He reveal Himself to you? I don't know, but I don't think that He expects a completely "blind" faith. HOWEVER, His revelation to you very well may fall outside of a rational or scientific basis. THIS is the issue with someone who is as intelligent as you are in the worldly sense. Pride is what caused the fall of Lucifer, and pride (in your own earthly knowledge) is very likely the sin which you should be most careful of succumbing to. No offence; despite the things I've written to you in the past, I respect you. I do believe that you are strong enough to take this either way. Do what you will.

[Alan]

Stop pussyfooting around and answer the god damn question:

Why the fuck believe in the Bible above thousands of other holy books? all of them claim to be the ultimate truth.