Philosophia

[Godslayer Jillian]

I guessed the other philosophy threads were deleted by some weird automatic program triggered to erase any thread called Philosophy, so I slightly changed the name of this thread to see if it is a program after all.
Philosophia is, obviously, Latin for philosophy.
So, I hope this thread does remain around, and it becomes a hit.
I'll start with a small phrase of mine, and I'll explain the whys of the phrase later, after I leave you some time to think and talk about it.

"If I were God, I would have killed myself a long time ago."

[angel011]

I see reaching a higher state of existence and seeking truth/beauty as the same.

[Godslayer Jillian]

That's the beauty of this thread: We will always disagree.

[Iriacynthe]

Seek truth and beauty, and give and receive love, and those things lead to a higher state of existence.

I've always been bad in making choices.

[TheCastrator]

Purpose? Hm. I suppose there's the biological view; to propogate the species, et cetera et cetera.

But there's more to it, I think. As humans, we can go against the grain. For example, we defeat millions of years of evolution by sticking a bit of latex on.
That doesn't give a purpose, not in the slightest, but it gives us the chance to create our own purposes; to value what we wish to value, and disregard what we find no interest in.

I don't think I know just yet, what my purpose is. I don't see any inherent meaning in life beyond "We live to breed" so I can only ponder what I am and value the things I value and so on.
Ah look, I'm sticking to what I've been saying for ten years; the meaning of life is to find the meaning of life.

[spookypurple]

Oooooooh. Like it.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Ahh, propagating the sepecies. How could I forget that one?

[WizardElement5]

Hi Jill, with such a big question it's hard to reply with anything less than an essay, but here goes.

Certainly life has evolved through time from single-celled organisms to more and more complex and aware creatures. So on a purely biological level that might suggest that there is some purpose. But the process of evolution is in itself perhaps merely the mechanism and not the reason. Then what does complexity and awareness lead to? The chance of experiencing great joy, yes, but also and equally great suffering. I can think of few things worse than say, being thrown alive in to the ovens at Belsen, (the concentration camp), and no matter what joys one experiences, how can one say life is worth it if we are not able to accept such an horrific fate for ourselves also? If there is a purpose, then certainly it involves such a terrible level of cruelty for some living beings that any decent person would surely have nothing to do with it. For most of us, for most of the time, such things are truly unbarable to contemplate and we carry on as isolated individuals looking out for ourselves and saying, "there but for the grace of God go I."

On an individual level, certainly I regard my own purpose as to be that which I am. On a biological level I am of course a particular genetic being, but that again I would describe only as the mechanism and not the purpose itself. Then what does this genetic code produce in a complex, aware creature such as a human? Psychologically, a number of basic truths or archetypes, each competing for its own expression. These truths, or their personifications as Gods, then have to be integrated into the conscious Self to make up my complete being. So, that is my own personal journey, but please don't ask me why, I haven't got a clue.

[Circle V]

I believe that the meaning or goal of each individual's life is determined by that person. In that sense at least, I profess an existentialist philosophical outlook.

I've always believed that life itself doesn't have a purpose, but that without the existence of sentient beings to witness it the universe would have no purpose. Therefore, life lends a purpose to everything else.

It is likely that I believe this only because my mind is incapable of comprehending the 'pure' universe-- that is, the universe how it is, how it would be if neither I nor anyone else existed... if the universe exists at all outside of our perception.

I believe-- and please forgive me for any inaccuracy-- that Nietzsche phrased the question along the lines of:

"The question is, if the head (of the observer) were cut off, would the universe continue to exist? In what manner would it exist?"

To modify an old cliche and pretend that it constitutes an original thought:

If a tree falls in the forest and the event remains forever unrecorded and unnoticed, did it ever happen? What if someone happened upon the fallen tree after the event? Is the event posthumously said to have occurred? Could the event then be said to have been something that *had happened* ever since the tree fell or only once the event was discovered to have happened?

I wonder how many philosophical questions are simply matters of semantics.

[Draconysius]

One quote that sums up my every belief in an interconnected matrix is "All that is certain is that nothing is certain". There's no method in any form of existence that will allow humans to know with certainty that something actually exists and isn't simply a figment of a dream. Insanity exists in ever single human being and living creature in some form, because every single living entity behaves in some way that isn't usual. Madhouses are worthless prisons. Like yin and yang, so many aspects of life seem to operate best with elements of light and darkness, good and evil, positive and negative, etc.

Also, it is very likely that the U.S. government is trying to take over the world, is trying to establish a totalitarian police-state of pseudo-communism, and it is somewhat likely that they're working alongside the extra-dimensional beings most know as martians to reduce the population in an effort to more easily control their people. I have my reasons for believing these, however, and I do not claim to know these with utmost certainty. They simply seem very likely based on the evidence I've witnessed first and third-hand.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I believe so too. My theory is that they began working a couple thousand years ago.
Their first act was to give some longhair commie freak super powers. His message was "Take what thou hast and give it to the poor." and "Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you."
It was not until this century that two enlightened non-humans came by the names of Anton.
The first Anton corrected the phrase and turned it into "Do unto others as they do unto you."
The second Anton was almost a god and found out the secret bases of the communist otherwordly beings. It's easy to remember them thanks to an easy to remember mnemotic phrase he taught us:
Mother Very Easily Made a Jam Sandwich Using No Peanuts, Mayonnaise, or Glue.

[Circle V]

Do not mock another's beliefs, Jillian, unless you have discussed and researched them thoroughly beforehand.

Draconysius' beliefs seem very improbable to me, but I obviously haven't had access to the same sources as he has. Therefore, I must demonstrate a measure of respect and allow for the possibility that his beliefs are or could be valid.

Does "All that is certain is that nothing is certain" not apply to itself?

My personal belief is that contradiction is an inescapable and glorious aspect of human existence. The need to simplify everything into an absolute and internally consistent truth is a dangerous temptation. Not everything (if anything!) can be thus condensed, and no truth-- to the extent that we are capable of understanding 'truth'-- is free of some form of contradiction.

Interesting:
The fact that this belief is inconsistent with itself could be said to validate it.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Damn! It did sound like mockery. But seriously I do believe half of what I said, with the other half being Robert Anton Wilson's theme in his Book, Schrodinger's Cat. Even the mnemonic phrase is a koan when you discover it. Although I've never thought of reducing the population as a plan. You'll understan what I mean if you read Schrodinger's Cat by the already mentioned author, which I thoroughly reccomend.
Heh, sorry but I wasn't mocking anyone.

Sidenote: the only half-belief on my own post comes from the fact that koans aren't made for believing in them.

[happy_dude]

By Anton do you mean Anton LaVey?
I follow do unto others as they do unto you, the Christian version doesn't work. Some people don't understand good will.
I believe there is no grand meaning of life, only to enjoy it and let others enjoy it however they see fit as long as that doesn't infringed on other peoples enjoyment.
There is a god or higher power that created the universe and whatnot(I find it hard to believe this is all a big coincidence), but I don't believe this god would want us to live by its rules and regulations.
There's a brief run down of my beliefs... oh and continue the species at all costs!

[Circle V]

It is not hard to believe that a such a coincidence could occur if one presumes that there was infinite time (and, as such, infinite circumstances) for it to occur in.

[Circle V]

The belief that the universe, as with all things, must have had a beginning and that, since the universe was created from nothing, it must have been created by *something/one* is used by many as an argument for the existence of a Creator. (The claim that the universe was created from nothing is now proved untrue by the very statement that it appears in. I will discuss this momentarily.

However, the very one belief that one must hold as true in order to believe that this scenario existed-- that all things must have a beginning-- is what destroys it:

Since all things must have a beginning, and something cannot come from nothing, the universe was formed by a powerful Creator. What, then, created the Creator? If one is to believe that another being must have created this God, one must also believe that yet another being created that one-- and thus eternal recurrence comes into play. Yet if the belief that everything has a beginning is held to be true, and this eternal recurrence is also believed to exist and to extend infinitely (that is, into both the past and the future), there is a massive contradiction.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Well, in the case that a god created the universe, and before it there was nothing, there is one possibility that might work, although I'm not saying it's the only one:

God might have been created in the future. Maybe it was created by the human subconscious. Maybe it was literally created thanks to technology, just as Voltaire predicted. Maybe God created itself.
However it did it, it becomes omnipotent: physical laws don't affect him.
It could have easily gone back to the beginning of everything and create everything, and eventually create itmself.

[Circle V]

Physical laws aren't the same as temporal laws. Also, if God could be said to create itself, why couldn't the universe be said to have done the same?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Good point, my friend. I should have said that god wouldn't be subject to time/space regulations.
And yes, it's more logical for the universe to have created itself instead of there being a creator in the middle.
Personally, I believe in the Hidden Variable of quantum mechanics.

[Draconysius]

Hmm... I'm really enjoying this thread. I only wish someone else would join. *pouts* Anyway, I believe that "god" is something untouchable by human hands. If some benevolent, all-powerful being created everything from nothing, where exactly did the creator come from in the first place? The question of god is like a circle of infinity.

If Neo wakes up form the matrix --something that he had no knowledge of until outside sources intervened, how then can he be certain that his "awake" and "real" world isn't just another matrix?

[darkangel299]

A matrix upon a matrix. How interesting you bring that up. How can anyone be sure that they are not a puppet on an elaborate stage?

[happy_dude]

...no strings? But it is a possiblility.
If a god can create the universe what's not to say it cannot create itself? Will power is an amazing thing. Otherwise how did this Big Bang thing happen? It happened all by itself.

[Circle V]

One of the greatest problems of most religions is the belief that God's behavior can be comprehended by humans.

[Child_of_Fury]

I replied, "Reaching a higher state of existence". I have absorbed a somewhat Buddhist-like view of life; I try and respect all living beings (altho' it won't stop me from squashing a spider with a newspaper).

[happy_dude]

You're a monster!
I don't kill animal unless they harm me, inwhich case it's killing time. As far as I'm concerned even ants have an equal right to live as I do.