Commence Saya Coniption in 3...2...

[AshleyO]

1...



Problem Saya?

[Saya]

I saw it already and didn't have a conniption fit!

I choose to believe that she lost her cowl/mask somehow and stole Batman's bike.

And she also lost her boots and had to substitute with heels.



Honestly with all the previews of the Catwoman comic coming up, I'm pretty close to feeling like the character is dead to me anyway.

[AshleyO]

To be fair, Hathaway stresses that those shots only show off about 1/10th of what that suit can do and what it is.

What is it about the reboot Catwoman that's upsetting you? Did I miss it somehow?

[Saya]

Didio is saying that its going to be absolutely dirty, and it does have a higher rating than most other DC comics. From the first and second, I think, all they've released so far is her and Bruce having sex, and in the third one...well this is the released cover but not the final one:

CATWOMAN #3
NOT FINAL COVER ART
Written by JUDD WINICK
Art and cover by GUILLEM MARCH
On sale NOVEMBER 16 * 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
RATED T+
Cats hate baths. Cats hate dogs. And cats hate being caught. Catwoman stole from the wrong man, and now he’s got her. He wants his stuff back, he wants answers and he wants blood. Cats had better have nine lives, because Selina Kyle is about to lose one!

If its promised that the new Catwoman is nothing but dirt and sex, I'm highly suspicious of eroticized violence against her.

[AshleyO]

..........

I don't think DC knows what they're doing anymore.

[Ben Lahnger]

I was going to say that (except for the heels - whatthaheck?), Hathaway's outfit looks plenty "practical" ... which seems to have been a concern to some in the past. I'm kinda MEH on the look (not because it's not sexualized but because most still pics from film productions don't communicate what the image will feel like to me in the context of the action and the story.)

Regarding DC's upcoming comic-book take on the character, the goggles look as stupid as ever.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by AshleyO

..........

I don't think DC knows what they're doing anymore.

I don't think Marvel's any better.

Yeah, on another site I frequent three members were nerd raging hardcore at this picture, but I think it's pretty pointless, because, like Ben said, you don't know how the costume will fair within the context of the movie.

[Grausamkeit]

She reminds me of Julie Newmar.

[Saya]

Aside from the heels what I don't like is the lack of mask or cowl or anything to indicate "cat", you know? This could be about when Selina Kyle was just a regular thief, or like I said she just had lost her cowl at this point. Since Talia seems to be around the same shoot its probably towards the end of the movie so I'm hoping its just that.

Because if that's Catwoman, she doesn't look anything like a cat, and its a shitty disguise anyway.

[AshleyO]

I want to believe that those high heels are just because she's on a break?

Look... it makes ZERO sense for an acrobatic cat burglar to wear high heels.

I can expect that from meat headed artists who know what they like when they draw a woman, but I really really want to believe that Nolan is far more intelligent than that.

Seriously, I almost want to take every single artist who ever drew a female combatant and make them run 100 laps in high heels so that they will get it through their retarded skull that there's nothing AT ALL necessary about those kinds of shoes in a combat situation.

[Grausamkeit]

Ah, but practical shoes don't look sexy! The important thing is to make women look sexy on screen, practicality be damned.

[AshleyO]

I would argue that Sarah Conor was sexy in Terminator 2. It IS possible.

I get your meaning though. Trying to be a kinda funny and all.

[Grausamkeit]

Originally Posted by AshleyO

I would argue that Sarah Conor was sexy in Terminator 2. It IS possible.

I get your meaning though. Trying to be a kinda funny and all.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. I hear so much crap from men wondering what's wrong with a woman looking sexy and I don't know if some of them are willfully ignorant or if it comes naturally. Using their examples of stupidity in a sarcastic response helps me vent, somewhat.

I liked Sarah Connor in T2 and in The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Perfect combo of badass meets sexy.

[Ben Lahnger]

I hear a lot of women saying that Sarah Conner was sexy in T2. I'm not sure I hear that many guys using that adjective. Oh, she was tough and kicked ass and we admired her, but it's not the same as sexy.

Same for Sigourney Weaver in Aliens or Geena Davis in The Long Kiss Goodnight (which I liked a lot.)

[Grausamkeit]

I think women are more sexy when they're kicking ass(verbally or physically).

Personally, I find this sexy.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4XtOF0_jgs...ah+connors.jpg

And this.
http://www.dvdhamlet.com/images/uplo...0639305366.jpg

I don't know, I think that kicking ass is sexy. It is when guys do it in movies, so why can't ass-kicking women be seen as sexy too?

[Ben Lahnger]

That's an interesting question. I personally don't think guys or girls kicking ass in a movie is sexy. Nothing sexual about it. Inspiring and exciting, yes, but not sexy. I don't think most guys think it's sexy either.

Let's take an extreme. Do you think female body builders (the kind of person I could see filling a Red Sonja type role) are sexy? Most guys don't, with the notable exception of a certain segment of fetishists.

So, let's get back to the heart of the matter ... why do many women think a guy kicking ass is sexy? Is that a throwback memory to a time when women were more dependent on men for protection?

We know women do not depend on men for protection now, so the role of men as heroic protector is diminished (and rightly relegated to the past for for it's gender oppressive baggage). But how do we explain the characters put on the screen today, and women's reactions to them?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

That's an interesting question. I personally don't think guys or girls kicking ass in a movie is sexy. Nothing sexual about it. Inspiring and exciting, yes, but not sexy. I don't think most guys think it's sexy either.

Let's take an extreme. Do you think female body builders (the kind of person I could see filling a Red Sonja type role) are sexy? Most guys don't, with the notable exception of a certain segment of fetishists.

So, let's get back to the heart of the matter ... why do many women think a guy kicking ass is sexy? Is that a throwback memory to a time when women were more dependent on men for protection?

We know women do not depend on men for protection now, so the role of men as heroic protector is diminished (and rightly relegated to the past for for it's gender oppressive baggage). But how do we explain the characters put on the screen today, and women's reactions to them?

There are tribal cultures who think that passive people in general, and that includes men, are the best people. To be aggressive or even assertive is bad behavior. More likely is that our culture still values violence and heroics, and men have had a monopoly on that role forever. Women still technically can't get into a combat unit in the army, and women are still in the minority in jobs like police force, so men by and large still got a hold on state sanctioned and therefore heroic violence. Men are also more likely to be the perpetrators of criminal violence, and also more likely to be the victims of violence (excluding domestic and sexual violence). Because male violence is usually what we see, violence is considered masculine, not feminine. Hey, if you're passive and a man, you're a "pussy" aren't you? You're feminine and weak. Maybe thats why a lot of women like kickass men, because even women know its wrong to be like a woman.

Also, women are traditionally viewed as ornamental, they're just here to look pretty, right? Hugh Hefner recently said, when asked how he responds to criticisms that he turns women into sex objects, "women are sex objects." They aren't supposed to be functional, they're just supposed to be hot and passive.

I think more men than you realize like kickass women, considering most women are hypersexualized in media. I think the question is will men find women sexy if they're kickass even if they are wearing clothes or don't have huge tits busting out of their shirts. Maybe they don't, but I think the assumption they don't and they won't like any women character they don't want to fuck is why things like Kill Bill and Alien only show up now and then.

[Saya]

Dear Christopher Nolan,

If you aren't going to take Catwoman seriously, neither am I. Eartha Kitt and Julie Newmar pulled off this look when it was meant to be silly, a gritty "realistic" take on Batman cannot do the same.

This movie might just be the final nail in the coffin of Selina Kyle.

[Ben Lahnger]

I've been thinking about this for a while. First, I think this statement is true ...

Originally Posted by Saya

I think more men than you realize like kickass women, considering most women are hypersexualized in media.

... but it's not the same thing as saying men find kickass women sexy. I agree lots of men LIKE them. That's different.

I've found that the women of film that I really admired for being the strongest, most heroic characters (Alien's Ripley and The Long Kiss Goodnight's Samantha Caine, for example) do not elicit "She's hot" responses from the guys I know. And as I got emotionally involved in their stories, I never thought "I'd like to sleep with her." I thought "Man, if I were ever in a tight jam, I'd want her at my back."

Originally Posted by Saya

I think the question is will men find women sexy if they're kickass even if they are wearing clothes or don't have huge tits busting out of their shirts. Maybe they don't, but I think the assumption they don't and they won't like any women character they don't want to fuck is why things like Kill Bill and Alien only show up now and then.

I think you're suggesting that for films with strong female lead roles to succeed, the male audiences HAVE to find the women sexy, whether they are wearing revealing clothes and have huge tits, or not. And THAT kind of reinforcing opinion is why things like Kill Bill and Alien only show up now and then. Do you really think men can't like a female character if they DON'T primarily think of her as sexy?

---------------------------------

Back to the topic at hand, I really think you have to not go by any pictures or clips that are leaked in advance. People have misjudged what Nolan was doing in advance of a finished product being released and been wrong before. Based on his body of work, I trust the man.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

I think you're suggesting that for films with strong female lead roles to succeed, the male audiences HAVE to find the women sexy, whether they are wearing revealing clothes and have huge tits, or not. And THAT kind of reinforcing opinion is why things like Kill Bill and Alien only show up now and then. Do you really think men can't like a female character if they DON'T primarily think of her as sexy?

No, I very specifically said "The assumption that they don't" is why the movies aren't made often, not that no one likes these movies with women who aren't sex objects, obviously they do.

[Ben Lahnger]

Well, I was actually more focused on this sentence, which I might have been misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by Saya

I think the question is will men find women sexy if they're kickass even if they are wearing clothes or don't have huge tits busting out of their shirts.

I was thinking the question could be will men find women kickass if they don't particularly perceive them as being sexy. I think they do, which is why Alien and other films succeeded. But I'm sure you're right about Hollywood's assumptions.

[AshleyO]

Hollywood assumes too much, sure. But we reinforce and don't properly respond to their assumptions as consumers.

[AshleyO]

Originally Posted by Saya

Dear Christopher Nolan,

If you aren't going to take Catwoman seriously, neither am I. Eartha Kitt and Julie Newmar pulled off this look when it was meant to be silly, a gritty "realistic" take on Batman cannot do the same.

This movie might just be the final nail in the coffin of Selina Kyle.

...That seriously can't be real. What the fucking fuck is this fucking fucked up shit?

Initiate conniption!

[Saya]

Originally Posted by AshleyO

Hollywood assumes too much, sure. But we reinforce and don't properly respond to their assumptions as consumers.

Thinking about it after, it does seem that the only way to get people to take movies with female protagonists seriously is to either make it "sexy" or make it violent, or both. Otherwise, if its a drama or a comedy, it might fall into the category of chick flick and its assumed men don't like those. You need blood or tits to entice them to see a woman hero, its assumed.

Although recently a group of friends and I realized that boyfriends like so called chick flicks more than we do, I'm sure its not a true assumption for everyone, and I think Hollywood is doing itself a big disservice for not trying to dispell that.

[Saya]

After seeing this, I'm feeling a lot more horrified by seeing action heroes in heels.