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General General questions and meet 'n greet and welcome! |
03-12-2008, 06:58 AM
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#1
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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"It's not real life."
People often say this referring to the internet. In what way isn't being on the internet "real life?" I realize that when you turn off your computer it's gone, but that doesn't mean it's not made up of real people expressing real ideas.
The person you are on the internet definitely gives people a clue who you are in real life as well. For example, if you're a whiny bitch here, you're probably a whiny bitch elsewhere. If you argue a lot on here, it's likely you argue a lot with the people you interact with in person. What's more, it is possible to hurt someone over the internet, and that person isn't stupid or over-dramatic if his or her feelings are hurt. Just because something hurtful was expressed in text and not voice doesn't mean it isn't hurtful.
Another point--people say--"relax, it's just the internet," or "don't get worked up over a fight on the internet." I think people should relax about most things, and shouldn't get worked up over fights ever, because that's when stupid things happen.
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03-12-2008, 07:00 AM
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#2
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ukraine, Russia and Jordan
Posts: 198
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Now, this is a childish and mindless topic you made due to your argument with ravenmother, drop this i say; Act mature instead of flaming shit here.
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03-12-2008, 07:36 AM
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#3
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Actually, it's not childish or mindless. What's more, it's something many other people have said, and I'd like to have a discussion about it.
And...what the hell would this have to do with Ravenmother. I don't think she even said "chill out, it's the internet," or anything.
In fact---I'M the one often saying it, so in a way, I'm admitting to being wrong in this respect.
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03-12-2008, 07:52 AM
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#4
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,000
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What? this new thread was made because someone had an argument with ravenmother!? What a waste of everyones time! Grow up.
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03-12-2008, 08:01 AM
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#5
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Jesus Christ.
You people are fucking idiots.
If you bothered to read the argument I had with her, you'd understand this has NOTHING to do with that, and if I did, if would have to be me admitting I'm wrong.
You're telling me to grow up for admitting I'm wrong and wanting to discuss a thing I feel I've done wrong and other people have done wrong?
Are you missing parts of your brain?
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03-12-2008, 08:06 AM
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#6
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opteron_Man
What? this new thread was made because someone had an argument with ravenmother!? What a waste of everyones time! Grow up.
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Not only did you just ignore Ophelia's post in which she stated that this post wasn't a response to Ravenmother, this is not exactly the first post on gnet I'd attack as a waste of everyone's time. Even if it were made because of some prior disagreement between two members, which it wasn't, that's at least a reason. Off the top of my head, here are some threads you might address on your intrepid anti-waste-of-time crusade before you get to this one.
"Hey"
"Sometimes I wish I was me"
"Let's worship our Dear Lord Duckman"
"The Official Lesbian Pirates Thread"
"Goth Flag"
"Goth Slang"
The original post, while not Aristotlean or anything, is a more well-thought out and provocative contention than anything I've seen either of the individuals who attacked it contribute to this forum, ever.
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03-12-2008, 08:08 AM
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#7
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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I'm so glad you showed up.
How is it even conceivable that this was an attack on Ravenmother? That makes no fucking sense, since I'm taking something I DID and saying it's not a cool thing to do. That's not an attack on anyone, unless I'm attacking myself.
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03-12-2008, 08:18 AM
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#8
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
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Phtttttttttt!!!
Your urgent emotional need to make this point about "internet" being equal to real life is sad, inaccurate and didn't need a whole new thread. Since it seems that you are very thin skinned on this subject it also seems inevitable that you will take this as a personal attack. That is not my outright intention, but ...
Aw, fuck it. Let me go full bore and tell you this should have gone in "Whining". Take offense at your leisure.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!
As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.
Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
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03-12-2008, 08:22 AM
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#9
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Down the Rabbit Hole
Posts: 1,724
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You're right, and I've always felt a little annoyed when people say "Relax, it's just the Internet."
The thing is, is that just because we're not sitting in a room together, doesn't mean there aren't real people behind their icons, real minds working out responses, attacks, opinions, etc. It's as real as any conversation.
So it's just as rude to attack someone unprovoked on the boards as it is to call some random person in the coffee shop a moron.
And, by the way, the people jumping to conclusions? Please read and comprehend before you judge. There's no reason to immediately assume that everything here is about one-upping someone else.
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03-12-2008, 08:28 AM
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#10
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the concrete and steel beehive of Southern California
Posts: 7,449
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I would just like to add support to Ophelia's concept with the idea that conversely, people gain support and comfort and friendship from internet conversations. So logically:
a) People condemn and insult each other over the internet
b) People compliment, support and encourage each other over the internet
c) therefore it isn't just "the internet" but real people interacting and reacting.
(Opehlia's premise is true)
And Ben: great to see you dude! Long time no see. And your avatar still rocks!
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03-12-2008, 08:35 AM
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#11
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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The internet =/= real life so trying to say they are equivalent is inaccurate at best. Many people create alter egos for message boards and the like, acting quite differently than they do in their real life. This being said you can get emotionally invested in online communities and it is possible for online spats to upset normal, intelligent people so maybe we should all just upgrade our netiquette
By the way, long time no see Ben
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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03-12-2008, 08:38 AM
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#12
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
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HumanPain, thanks man. Good to see you too.
I will say I've seen this subject posted over and over again for years in many forums. At one point there was a logical debate to be had. This thread didn't get started as a logical introduction to debate ... it was an emotional response and rebuttal to things the poster had said to them elsewhere ... where ever that might be.
And to state the case succinctly, when I talk to someone face to face, there are no masks. They assess me with all the prejudices and filters that meeting someone in person entails. The internet is not the same thing at all, and even if you make the case that you are representing yourself honestly here, no one is making the same judgments about you that they would in real life. For good or evil, that is the difference.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!
As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.
Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
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03-12-2008, 08:39 AM
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#13
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
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Sorry, I misspelled HumanePain. I apologize. Solumina, good to see you too.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!
As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.
Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
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03-12-2008, 08:41 AM
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#14
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
this point about "internet" being equal to real life is inaccurate
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On the contrary, what one does and says online can have substantial material consequences. I don't mean to say that talking to people online can replace actual socialization with others in person, but only that the common conception of the internet as a fantasy land where one can say or do whatever one wants with no fear whatsoever of negative consequences is inherently flawed. In addition to acknowledging Ophelia's totally valid point that people so emotionally fragile as to be tremendously upset by what people say to them online (Signe, Bella Sophia) do exist, I submit that, in some ways, what one says online possesses the potential to demonstrate repercussions far more dramatic than what one says in the real world, primarily because there is no privacy online whatsoever.
For instance, flashing your boobs to a close friend in a private room is no big deal. Flashing your boobs to a stranger in PM can lead to your becoming cheap porn for 50,000 sexually maladjusted losers. Contriving an elaborate scheme to murder someone with your friends while drunk? Cool. Posting it online usually won't work out. I've learned this truth the hard way- for using the likeness of a fellow student without permission in the totally benign context of a youtube video, I was nearly expelled from my high school.
Don't post anything online you wouldn't be comfortable saying in real life, or showing to every computer owner you know.
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03-12-2008, 08:44 AM
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#15
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
it was an emotional response and rebuttal to things the poster had said to them elsewhere ... where ever that might be.
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It's not, by the way. The people who said that were wrong and should probably be ignored.
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03-12-2008, 08:45 AM
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#16
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ukraine, Russia and Jordan
Posts: 198
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IT seems that the whole topic is an excuse for trolling and insulting other members ? or let me rephrase it " Expressing opinion in a flaming way " ?
That's not in my book at all.
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03-12-2008, 08:47 AM
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#17
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Down the Rabbit Hole
Posts: 1,724
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What are you talking about? Who flamed who?
By the way Gothicus, this is the first time that I've read a post of yours that didn't really match the facial expression in your icon.
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03-12-2008, 08:49 AM
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#18
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ukraine, Russia and Jordan
Posts: 198
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I am talking about the problem that started with Ophelia and ravenmother.
And it's pretty clear to everyone that this topic was started due to emotional reasons.
Edit : misunderstood the message that was written above.
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03-12-2008, 08:54 AM
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#19
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Ben, I missed that avatar.
And I'm not offended--but I don't think this really goes in whining, as I'm not really whining. I'm wondering why people think their actions online mean nothing.
For example--a few weeks ago I made a really fucked up comment to Korinna. Would I have said that in person? Yes. However, the point isn't whether or not I'm hiding, it's that saying something mean is mean--real life or not.
While I thought of this because of various arguments I've had, it isn't a response to one, nor is it an attack on any particular member, because as I've said, this is actually something I do myself that I'm not proud of.
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03-12-2008, 08:57 AM
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#20
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magila
And it's pretty clear to everyone that this topic was started due to emotional reasons.
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No. Just to you, and you're wrong.
Did you read Ophelia's unrelated argument with Ravenmother? If you did, you'd know Ravenmother complained that Ophelia was being too mean to her. The idea that what one says over the internet can actually hurt one's feelings doesn't really support the Ophelia's position in that discussion. IT'S NOT RELATED. Now discuss the somewhat interesting topic at hand, or return to playing the Word Association Game or pretending to suck Duckman's cock or whatever it is you usually do.
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03-12-2008, 08:57 AM
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#21
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
This thread didn't get started as a logical introduction to debate ... it was an emotional response and rebuttal to things the poster had said to them elsewhere ... where ever that might be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
It's not, by the way. The people who said that were wrong and should probably be ignored.
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Actually, it was. Although I think you mis-responded to me. (Yes, I just made that word up. ...) Allow me to quote the original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia
People often say this referring to the internet. In what way isn't being on the internet "real life?"
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and
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia
Another point--people say--"relax, it's just the internet," or "don't get worked up over a fight on the internet."
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when I see someone post the words "People say", I am correct in stating that they are quoting things that have been said elsewhere. You can't parse that any differently.
And I never have anyone say such things to me, because I never make the emotionally needy mistake of trying to portray my internet doodlings as anywhere as significant or as important or as satisfying as what I do in real life.
And why did you completely ignore the second paragraph of my comment? You quoted the first half, but the second half had the meat of the argument in it.
And why am I still responding to this when my massively more significant real life is calling? Hmph!
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!
As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.
Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
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03-12-2008, 08:59 AM
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#22
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ukraine, Russia and Jordan
Posts: 198
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I am not amused gothicusmaximus, at all.
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03-12-2008, 09:05 AM
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#23
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
when I see someone post the words "People say", I am correct in stating that they are quoting things that have been said elsewhere. You can't parse that any differently.
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I actually meant myself, Badteccy, and Mollymac, mostly. We do say that a lot, particularly to members like Bella Sophia.
(was she banned or something?)
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03-12-2008, 09:05 AM
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#24
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
when I see someone post the words "People say", I am correct in stating that they are quoting things that have been said elsewhere. You can't parse that any differently.
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Things that have been said, but not a specific thing that a certain individual said in the context of a recent discussion. That the internet isn't real life is a common adage, people say it all the time. Doesn't mean this is about any specific person.
Quote:
And why did you completely ignore the second paragraph of my comment? You quoted the first half, but the second half had the meat of the argument in it.
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I didn't ignore it, I just didn't quote it for the sake of a shorter post. I made clear my idea that emotionally fragile people who do take what's said online seriously do exist, and that, in more dire respects, one's actions in the 'unfiltered' world of the internet can have troubling consequences, even those which effect his or her real life.
People get fired for blogs all the time. You really shouldn't say anything you wouldn't be comfortable saying in person in the presence of every computer owner you know, but that's no fun, so we take generally take the risks.
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03-12-2008, 09:06 AM
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#25
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth.
Posts: 8,001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magila
I am not amused gothicusmaximus, at all.
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Neither am I.
I am very serious about this.
BUT YOU WILL NEVER BREAK ME!
I am eccentric and intelligent person!!
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