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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 05-22-2008, 06:32 PM   #51
Godslayer Jillian
 
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And it is unnatural that primates have such a great intelligence beyond simple tools, except for humans. So why can you prove human vileness by such an arbitrary window of evolution?
Humans are aggressive because apes are aggressive, but they can't be non-aggressive even though they have a conscious saying on their evolutionary path?
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:44 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
And it is unnatural that primates have such a great intelligence beyond simple tools, except for humans. So why can you prove human vileness by such an arbitrary window of evolution?
Humans are aggressive because apes are aggressive, but they can't be non-aggressive even though they have a conscious saying on their evolutionary path?
Hm, good point. I'm not perfectly happy with America's system either. What I want is a system that promotes advancement and competition that doesn't cause us to kill each other. Any ideas?
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:44 PM   #53
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leung_Kwok-hung

Speaking of Che, I feel that I should mention this man.
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:28 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach Twin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leung_Kwok-hung

Speaking of Che, I feel that I should mention this man.
That dude is awesome. He should dye a purple streak in it.
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:54 PM   #55
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That hair statement gives me ideas!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:30 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Communism isn't bad - its good.
Personally, I disagree with communist ideals, yet agree with responsible capitalism. I believe that individual merit should be allowed to rise up among others. If a local restaurant serves the best damn food in town and suddenly everyone is going to eat there, I applaud them.
However, I do not agree with monopolies or franchises. For example, if a book were very well-written and made it to the bestseller list (even though plenty of bestsellers are crappy), congratulations to the author, though releasing films and promotional merchandise removes the individual merit and turns the work into a cash cow *coughHarryPottercough*

On the subject of Guevara himself, I unfortunately can't say much - the most I know is his leadership position in communist Cuba, his words near his execution - (translated) "I crap on the breasts of the Virgin Mary so that the baby Jesus sucks shit" ... and his unfortunate reduction to a marketable icon.
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:36 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Personally, I disagree with communist ideals, yet agree with responsible capitalism. I believe that individual merit should be allowed to rise up among others. If a local restaurant serves the best damn food in town and suddenly everyone is going to eat there, I applaud them.
Like Laissez-faire capitalism?
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:13 PM   #58
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Just have to pitch in my two cents...it drives me insane when people wear Che Guevera shirts/caps or carry Mao bags and don't know anything about them. I own a Mao bag, it has the Little Red Book in one of the side pockets and I have read the full book. So ha. I am allowed to carry it.

And just a side note...

Isn't it ironic that Che Guevera paraphernalia has become such a capitalist enterprise? Think of all the money people make off a communist...hehehe.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:09 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methadrine
Like Laissez-faire capitalism?
Perhaps. I don't know every aspect of Laissez-faire beyond it being trade unregulated by government. So, I don't know if my ideas could be called Laissez-faire or not.

However, I know that Laissez-faire ideals are argued to be one of the factors which lead to the Depression.
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:14 PM   #60
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Laissez-faire government used to justify the petty bourgeois, but now it's the banner of neo-liberal capitalists. E.G. WTO and NAFTA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 05-24-2008, 02:18 AM   #61
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It has been said here before, by myself and others, and I'll say it again -

The ultimate outcome of capitalism in a society is when the second richest man dies of starvation.
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:27 AM   #62
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@Jillian: Hmmm... I can't say I've studied Neo-Liberal Capitalism, either. I got me some research to do.

@CptSternn: Is there proof of Communism being the ideal, therefore?
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:22 PM   #63
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In relatively small communities, but as an economic way of life rather than a set political manifesto. Maybe it's just my bias, but when it works, communism and anarchism go hand in hand, communism being one of the easiest ways but not the only one, for an anarchist community to work.
The most perfect egalitarian community, the Diggers in England, had no perpetual authorities and lived a life of equal distribution of resources. Unfortunately these communities were only of a couple hundred people.
But then we can also point out to the beginnings of the Russian revolution, before the Bolsheviks decided to take control of the state-vacuum, rationalizing that "a period of control is temporarily necessary" against obvious evidence of the contrary. In the early aftermath of the Russian revolution, there were autonomous communities based on libertarian communism. Case in point, the Makhnovtchina, a newly formed region in the Ukraine consisting of seven million people.
There's countries subjected to the inequalities of capitalism with less peopel than that. The Makhnovtchina is the perfect example that libertarian communism works.
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:39 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing_in_rain
Just have to pitch in my two cents...it drives me insane when people wear Che Guevera shirts/caps or carry Mao bags and don't know anything about them. I own a Mao bag, it has the Little Red Book in one of the side pockets and I have read the full book. So ha. I am allowed to carry it.

And just a side note...

Isn't it ironic that Che Guevera paraphernalia has become such a capitalist enterprise? Think of all the money people make off a communist...hehehe.
actually, the image has been in legal battles for a long time. One of my favorite protest shirt websites claims that they can't sell it any longer because the rights to it have been bought..
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:30 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ed
his words near his execution - (translated) "I crap on the breasts of the Virgin Mary so that the baby Jesus sucks shit"
Where the hell did you read that?
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:35 AM   #66
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Good news - the new biopic on Che called 'Guerrilla' will be hitting the cinemas soon. Benicio Del Toro took top prise at Cannes for his portayal of Che in the film. It's supposed to be very good.

I guess we will see, eh?
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:36 PM   #67
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Most definitely
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:41 AM   #68
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Going back to Che:

He used to be my hero once. I used to sport his face on a Greenwitch Village made T-Shirt in the late 80's. It used to piss off my sergeant to no end. Those were fun times.

A little trivia? I was raised in his home city of Rosario. I received a very good Latin American education, and I must say that he was not so revered by his country men. Of course, being under a dictatorship might have something to do with this, but as I talk to people from Argentina, you get the "American Hater" who loves Che, and the Capitalist wanna be who can give two shits about Mr. Ernesto.

I was all about Che. I read his writings, because I was also very interested in Guerrilla Warfare and wanted to know it, live it, and do it.

As I grew up and did more research, I came to realize that Che was nothing more than a figure head, a racist asshole who hated mestizos and was being manipulated by Castro.

Che ordered the execution of thousands of political prisoners and opponents of the "revolutionaries" and lived the good life under the revolutionary banner. Like the band CRASS used to sing: "left wing, right wing is all the fucking same".

I know that a lot of people appreciate his "doctrines", but most of the crap he wrote was borrowed from other writers and revolutionaries. As the minister of economic development, Che was very naive and did not know what the hell he was going, pushing for true "communistic" doctrines to be put in effect by the workers, and common sense was not something that he was willing or ready to accept.

Please read a bit more about him form other sources than the self serving propaganda that is out there about him, and you will see that he was just a man, with some ideals, but not the grandiose hero that people make him up to be.

Before he died, he said: "I am Che, I am worth more alive than dead", not the words of a hero I say.

Enjoy your T-Shirts,

El Tio Jerry de Rosario.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:34 AM   #69
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Keep in mind, that's the quote the government troops CLAIM he said before he died. They hated him, do you really trust that quote?

And I've always found buying a Che shirt to be hypocritical.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:54 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity
Keep in mind, that's the quote the government troops CLAIM he said before he died. They hated him, do you really trust that quote?

And I've always found buying a Che shirt to be hypocritical.
Very true. You can never underestimate the power of propaganda, and we were/are? good at it.

I live in Los Angeles, and I get my blood boiling all the time, seeing these Hipsters wearing that crap all the time.

"Hasta la victoria siempre"

Uncle Jerry
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:21 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity
Keep in mind, that's the quote the government troops CLAIM he said before he died. They hated him, do you really trust that quote?

And I've always found buying a Che shirt to be hypocritical.
Thats one thing that really boggles me, seeing someone with Che or anarchy merchandise. Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:14 AM   #72
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Well, it's not like people wearing them are going to care.
They just want to be cool.
Then again, there's the occasional person that screen printed a leftist shirt by himself or bought it from a collective. At an Anti-Flag concert I saw a guy wearing a Che shirt, and I did mention to my friend how that annoys me, but then he approached us to ask us to sign a petition for which he was trying to collect signatures at the concert. He was even friends with some crimethinkers. That might be a little too reformist and moderate, but he sure as hell was more political with that than most 'punks' in the concert.

Anyway, that's a whole different story. Going back to Che; it's pretty obvious that he didn't have an individual theory. Anyone that knows a little about him will know that there's not much he expanded on Communist theory. But that means nothing, except that we're too fixated with theory and no action.
Che is still more than a figurehead. He fought for other's ideals rather than one of his own, but he did so because he wanted so. He was always in the field of battle and volunteered for the most dangerous actions because he never considered his own life before the missions they were doing (which goes back to the skepticism of his final words which Fidel Castro stated are simply not like Che to say)
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:53 AM   #73
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I just got my hands on History Of The Russian Revolution by Leon Trotsky. Worth reading or a biased piece of shit?
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:12 PM   #74
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Definitely worth reading, Trotsky is great.
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:34 AM   #75
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Aye, Trotsky is one of my favorite writers. He ranks up there next to Kafka.
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