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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 03-31-2006, 11:26 AM   #51
Pathogen.
 
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EDIBLE_EYE: I appreciate your honesty in this matter & this current post. Some other folks who become enemies over difference of opinion on an issue. That's how wars & personal rivalries start. I feared that it would turn into that kind of thing & was willing to risk it.

1 last thing: I don't drink alcohol at all. But if it's fruit juice or bottled water, then it's a different story.

WOLFMOON: I used to believe that, too. Consider that exploiting the newcomers. Fucking Capitalist State! It was free for my southern Italian [Sicilian] ancestors! Then my paternal Granddaddy & his folks had to change their names to "Walden"!

E_P_S: Now I see how this issue could affect you on a personal, visceral level. You were raised by someone from war-torn El Salvador.

House Resolution 4437 Update [based upon an e-mail a reliable source from a local immigrant-rights/anti-racism group I work with had sent me this morning]:

Monday evening, March 27, 2006: The United $tates Senate Judiciary Commitee passed a version of the bill WITHOUT 2 PROVISIONS:

*To make it a felony to be an undocumented immigrant.
*To criminalise those who help, serve or hire for employment undocumented immigrants.

A victory for those who were in the streets fighting this for the past month.

However, House Resolution 4437 will still:

*Expedite removal of undocumented immigrants [this will open the door to more I.C.E. sweeps, Border Patrol arrests & even worse, Minuteman Project/Minuteman-style racially-motivated vigilantism].
*Expansion of "aggravated felony".
*Expansion of immigrant detention centres [their construction & maintenance].
*Indefinite detention of undocumented immigrants.
*Encourage local cops/sheriff's deputies to work with I.C.E. operatives to round up undocumented immigrants [Posse Comitatus-style].
*Increase border militarisation [up goes the "Triple Fence"].

Senator Spector will offer the bill to the Senate tomorrow, where senators can either improve or worsen it. A vote both variants of House Resolution 4437 is expected on Thursday April 6. If 1 or the other passes [60 votes from the Senate floor are needed], it will continue on to the Conference Commitee, where House of Representatives & Senate officials will attempt to reconcile both variants of House Resolution 4437.
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Old 03-31-2006, 11:45 AM   #52
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fruit juice or bottled water it is.

and i'd like to think this is a first step toward regaining control of our borders, however in light of the current state of affairs, i fear it will boil down to a bunch of lip service. we don't enforce the laws we already have in place. what the fuck good will another one do?

time will tell, i guess. i really wish i had more faith in the government, in our politicians and in the current administration but i'm willing to bet they'll waffle. say one thing and do another - the ol' slight-of-hand card trick.

- sigh -
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Old 03-31-2006, 03:15 PM   #53
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show me, please where it states that. i'm curious to see where that fits into the framework of the naturalization process.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/faq.htm#q12

Most of it has come from the naturalization process I had to go through, with mailing, application fees, and fingerprinting.

usually, when one seeks employment, it is for the betterment of one's quality of life. what's the difference in place of residence, otherwise? i find it interesting that material possessions and working to provide for one's own are things you describe as being a part of life "which shouldn't require being hired", which i'll take the liberty to interpret as - one shouldn't be responsible for earning on one's own.

It was an unfinished thought. I meant that a quality of life, such as that granted by living in the United States, shouldn't required being "Hired [Metaphor]", as in going through the Naturalization process. I understand that one should be responsible for earning thier own, but to earn them, they must be able to earn it first.

so that leaves a question - who should be responsible for someone's quality of life, if not that person him or herself? and further, is it ok to work for a supposed quality of life betterment through illegitimate means?

Unfortunately, I am going to seem cold hearted in saying this, but yes, sometimes you have to get a bit dirty to actually succeed. The person should be responsible for their quality of life, but they should first be given the actual oppertunity to succeed.

reform also takes place by the citizens of this country making their voices heard. if a majority believe in open borders and the disintegration of the naturalization process, so be it. i don't believe that is the majority vote, though and as such reform will hopefully be avoided unless it's to enforce the law as its written.

You see, my belief is that you are looking at it as if only the citizens have the vote. It's like a man saying, "Our club wants these people moved out the city, the entire city". Who gave them the rights to move them out in the first place?


why should it be free? what's the justification for that statement?

i say - if you want something - earn it, work for it, do what it takes to make it happen. that's half the problem with the bullsit going on these days. people feel they are entitled to something merely becaus they want it.


I agree with you, but it should be free based on these grounds: Not all people, political refugees, victims of war, those escaping poverty-stricken countries, etc, can afford the citizenship process. Therefore, you are denying the ability to earn what they want. You first need a place to start.

how do you qualify one illegal act and yet condemn another? are you a judge? what are your credentials establishing your point of reference for a legitimate versus an illegitimate law?

my reference was a shocking analogy concerning the harm of one by the unlawful activity of another, while the law to prohibit it sits idly by to illustrate my point. it was not meant, in this context, to be taken literally.


I have no credientials, as I look at it from the point of view from a teenager. I am one man, who has his opinion on the way things should be run.

Your point confused me, but now that it is a bit clearer, I can make my rebuttle. I can condemn one illegal act, because that is what is required for change. If the law sits idely by and let's something like immigrants sneak into the border, who is it really hurting? Something like ****, is actually hurting someone.
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Old 04-01-2006, 04:10 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarian Decoding
Most of it has come from the naturalization process I had to go through, with mailing, application fees, and fingerprinting.
mailing = cost of postage.

what kinds of "application fees" did you have to pay?

and where did they charge you to get fingerprinted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
It was an unfinished thought. I meant that a quality of life, such as that granted by living in the United States, shouldn't required being "Hired [Metaphor]", as in going through the Naturalization process. I understand that one should be responsible for earning thier own, but to earn them, they must be able to earn it first.
finished thought or not, are you saying that by merely stepping on the soil of the united states, someone's quality of life has noticeably increased? and if so, how would you back that statement up?

i think the "hiring metaphor" works very well for the framework you laid down, unless of course you feel that illegal aliens have a right to wander across the border just to suck at the teat of working class america, thusly thumbing their noses at the citizenry in a country they claim they want to be a part of.

as far as the naturalization process goes - i disagree. i, as a citizen, want to know that whatever comes into this country is doing so without baggage such as a legal history, ties to enemies or general shitbaggery that would indicate someone coming here to collect money from the government - tax money working americans pay into the government to make our lives better. illegal aliens, until adopted into the country, don't matter in terms of what they want from america. if they want to earn something here in this country, they should enter it appropriately, like yourself obviously, and work for what they seek once approved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
Unfortunately, I am going to seem cold hearted in saying this, but yes, sometimes you have to get a bit dirty to actually succeed. The person should be responsible for their quality of life, but they should first be given the actual oppertunity to succeed.
every single person on this earth has the opportunity to apply for citizenship in the united states. again, the sense of entitlement baffles me. the - i want it so i'm gonna take it - mindset of modern man. and the best part? when they're called on it, they scream and gnash their teeth as though being told "no" is an offense they can't handle. as though having to wait and go through set protocol is "racist" somehow.

it's sad, really when you stop for a moment and think about it. people have become such pussies of late - the last 20 years or so. when they don't get what they want, right when they want it, they cry to whomever will listen and complain, complain, complain instead of doing what the rules say in order to get what they say they want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
You see, my belief is that you are looking at it as if only the citizens have the vote. It's like a man saying, "Our club wants these people moved out the city, the entire city". Who gave them the rights to move them out in the first place?
the citizens DO have the vote. it's our country. that's the way it goes.

when country-x loses the ability to make and formulate the rules of country-x, country-x ceases to exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
I agree with you, but it should be free based on these grounds: Not all people, political refugees, victims of war, those escaping poverty-stricken countries, etc, can afford the citizenship process. Therefore, you are denying the ability to earn what they want. You first need a place to start.
the place to start is the office of integration and naturalization. once there, ask about how one becomes a citizen. learn english so you can understand the answer... and follow the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
I have no credientials, as I look at it from the point of view from a teenager. I am one man, who has his opinion on the way things should be run.

Your point confused me, but now that it is a bit clearer, I can make my rebuttle. I can condemn one illegal act, because that is what is required for change. If the law sits idely by and let's something like immigrants sneak into the border, who is it really hurting? Something like ****, is actually hurting someone.
you're a teenager and your view of the world reflects that. i remember when i was a teen, i believed in peace, love and happiness for all, no matter what and under every circumstance. everyone should get everything, why does the world have to be so cruel, blah blah blah. it all boiled down to the same thing - why are there any obstacles in life and why can't i and everyone else get what we want when we want it?

it's a necessary mindset to explore at some stage of life, but in the end it's an immature approach to the world - immature being qualified as lacking experience, not merely as just being young.

illegals sneaking across the border do "hurt" people. they "hurt" communities. they "hurt" schools. they "hurt" themselves by not integrating appropriately and not learning the language. they "hurt" cities. they "hurt" the economy, no matter what screaming liberals say to the contrary. they "hurt" the masses already here and just because the masses do not have a face like the single woman in my scenario doesn't mean they are any less human.
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Old 04-01-2006, 05:12 AM   #55
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"...
*To make it a felony to be an undocumented immigrant.
*To criminalise those who help, serve or hire for employment undocumented immigrants.
...

It is illegal In Portugal to be at any time without your ID card (for nationals) or passport (for foreigners) and it was so long before we ever joined the European Community.

Regarding foreign workers (why are dark or squinty-eyed people emigrants and fair people expatriates?), it has never been a matter of legislation, as far as I am concerned.

The problem has always been not enough inspections of workplaces and employers,
not enough inspectors that aren't corrupt,
not enough inspectors with the balls to charge people,
Legislation only fails in not providing adequate punishment to fit the crime.

This makes it easier for business, capital and industry to easily buy their way out of the mess they constantly make on:

- the fabric of society (legal and illegal workers and the conditions they are subjected to)

- the environment (to dump on, spill in or smoke up a place is cheaper then doing things clean because the fines and penalties amount to less than a slap on the wrist).
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Old 04-01-2006, 08:08 AM   #56
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There is one thing people are missing on this issue, the fact that businesses are abusing workers rights since they are not legal immigrants. The middle class is having more burden put on them since the Illegal immigrants dont pay taxes. And the Mexican government is not taking care of its own problems, why bother when they can send the poor to us.

I also find it interesting that with the whole "war on terror" issue, which is mostly hyped up anyways, they care more about invading the middle east than trying to secure our borders. Which just tells me that this whole "war on terror" was more about globaleconomics than a real threat.
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Old 04-01-2006, 09:00 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snugglekeeg
There is one thing people are missing on this issue, the fact that businesses are abusing workers rights since they are not legal immigrants.

Look again: "(legal and illegal workers and the conditions they are subjected to)".

Although generally, it still falls under conditions.
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Old 04-01-2006, 09:07 AM   #58
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I find it interesting people keep refering to 'the law' when arguing against illegal immigration. By last years stats (whichI can dig up the links fer if ye want), over 20% of Americans are either incarcerated, or have been incarcerated. Those are US citizens. The US currently has 14% of it's population in prisons, and builds more prisons every year than any other country. Of the prisons there, most all are at or above capacity.

So if 'the law' is what governs the people and should be used in this argument, then why is it such a large chunk of the US population find themselves on the wrong side of it so often, then try to justify things like illegal immigration by getting behind the same 'law' they themselves can't keep from breaking.

How many illegals get themselves thrown in prison? I don't know, but I am willing to bet percentagewise if you look that more American citizens are currently incarcerated vs. illegal immigrants overall based on per capita stats.

This means under 'the law' the 'illegals' are better are keeping in line with it than the average US citizen.
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Old 04-01-2006, 09:15 AM   #59
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Also, lets talk about illegal workers taking US jobs. They don't just pull those jobs out of their arse, they are given jobs by US companies and business persons. Like Wal-Mart getting busted with thousands working there illegally, just one of many who recently got caught, if companies didn't hire illegals, they wouldn't be able to take those jobs.

It reminds me of a recent sting operation in Richmond me mate sent me links to in the news. They took a very hot blonde girl in a revealing outfit and sent her into clubs asking men to find her drugs, in return for sex (it was never directly stated, but explicitly implied). And the men went and found drugs. The men were then arrested.

Theyn argued in court, that they were setup. Many of these men had never been arrested, were single men in their 40's, and when a hot chick came up and was all over them, hell, she could have asked them to steal a car and they prolly would have tried it.

Didn't work though, they all got sentenced and some got jail time. I mean, these guys didn't have any drugs they just went around the club they were in asking others on behalf of the girl, in an effort to get laid. If the lady hadn't have asked them, and been so tempting, then they wouldn't have bought the drugs.

Much like this, if the jobs were not there and the money was not there, the 'illegals' wouldn't be comnig into the country.

To setup a plate in front of a starving man, then slap cuffs on him when he tries to take a bite seems a bit hypocritical to me.

-S
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Old 04-01-2006, 03:50 PM   #60
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mailing = cost of postage.

what kinds of "application fees" did you have to pay?

and where did they charge you to get fingerprinted?


They charged us to be printed at the building. The application fees were:
*To start application
*Paperwork
*Appointments to the DoHS
*Picture taking
*Passport making
*Registering for Permanent Residenship
*Registering for Citizenship
*Citizenship Ceremony



finished thought or not, are you saying that by merely stepping on the soil of the united states, someone's quality of life has noticeably increased? and if so, how would you back that statement up?
No, because if merely stepping on the soil of the United States, someone's quality of life would go up, then I would be more tenacious in fighting for this position. My point is that once you are in the United States, you have the ability to do more, then in a poverty stricken country.

i think the "hiring metaphor" works very well for the framework you laid down, unless of course you feel that illegal aliens have a right to wander across the border just to suck at the teat of working class america, thusly thumbing their noses at the citizenry in a country they claim they want to be a part of.
I guess I am saying that.

as far as the naturalization process goes - i disagree. i, as a citizen, want to know that whatever comes into this country is doing so without baggage such as a legal history, ties to enemies or general shitbaggery that would indicate someone coming here to collect money from the government - tax money working americans pay into the government to make our lives better. illegal aliens, until adopted into the country, don't matter in terms of what they want from america. if they want to earn something here in this country, they should enter it appropriately, like yourself obviously, and work for what they seek once approved.
That would inflict your point of views on how someone should be living their lives. For instance, if someone had "Legal" history, how do we know those charges are valid? The "Ties to Enemies or General Shitbaggery", would have to provide that you can both prove they are an enemy, and for what reason they are an enemy, along with knowing their intentions. Tax money for working Americans should be made to our lives better, I agree with this. But who is "Our", dare I ask? Is it the general population the United States, who actually work, as most illegal immigrants do, or is it those chosen few, who actually get the oppertunity to apply?


every single person on this earth has the opportunity to apply for citizenship in the united states. again, the sense of entitlement baffles me. the - i want it so i'm gonna take it - mindset of modern man. and the best part? when they're called on it, they scream and gnash their teeth as though being told "no" is an offense they can't handle. as though having to wait and go through set protocol is "racist" somehow.
It's not racist, but it wastes your time, and drains your resources. The entitlement comes from the fact that when people say, "This land is our land", they are simply saying, "Ha ha, I have guns, you can't come here".

it's sad, really when you stop for a moment and think about it. people have become such pussies of late - the last 20 years or so. when they don't get what they want, right when they want it, they cry to whomever will listen and complain, complain, complain instead of doing what the rules say in order to get what they say they want.

Isn't that called the American dream?


the citizens DO have the vote. it's our country. that's the way it goes.

when country-x loses the ability to make and formulate the rules of country-x, country-x ceases to exist.


But where does that end? When Country-X incorporates more people into it's country, doesn't it just become larger? Do not the rules simply become wider, or change in some form? The citizens have the right to vote, and they should, as laid down by the constitution. With that said, it is my belief that anyone who comes to America should also have that right.

the place to start is the office of integration and naturalization. once there, ask about how one becomes a citizen. learn english so you can understand the answer... and follow the rules.
The place you actually start, is at the border, where they give you six months to become a temporary permenant resident. As soon as you fail to do that, you're screwed.

you're a teenager and your view of the world reflects that. i remember when i was a teen, i believed in peace, love and happiness for all, no matter what and under every circumstance. everyone should get everything, why does the world have to be so cruel, blah blah blah. it all boiled down to the same thing - why are there any obstacles in life and why can't i and everyone else get what we want when we want it?

it's a necessary mindset to explore at some stage of life, but in the end it's an immature approach to the world - immature being qualified as lacking experience, not merely as just being young.


But, it's still an ideal we chase after, is it not? I understand why the world is so cruel, so, why can't we change it? I may lack experience, or I may just be looking at it from a different point of view.

illegals sneaking across the border do "hurt" people. they "hurt" communities. they "hurt" schools. they "hurt" themselves by not integrating appropriately and not learning the language. they "hurt" cities. they "hurt" the economy, no matter what screaming liberals say to the contrary. they "hurt" the masses already here and just because the masses do not have a face like the single woman in my scenario doesn't mean they are any less human.
How? How can they hurt the community, how can they hurt the people, how can they hurt themselves by not learning the language? Are they not just enriching the country with thier presence? I thought bringing in new ideals and people was a good thing.
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Old 04-01-2006, 03:51 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela
Oh, so if everyone's doing it, that makes it ok?

Didn't your mommy & daddy ever use the bridge analogy with you?
It's not neccesarily okay, but last time I checked, sometimes it was.
If everyone started breathing, does that make it okay?
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Old 04-01-2006, 04:14 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom
It is illegal In Portugal to be at any time without your ID card (for nationals) or passport (for foreigners) and it was so long before we ever joined the European Community.
what is this?!?!?!?!? you not only demand that people identify who they are in your country but break them down into categories such as "nationals" or "foreigners" AND, on top of it all, you claim it's ILLEGAL to not comply with the identification process!?!?!?!?!?!?

what if i want to stomp through your streets and demand citizenship in portugal NOW? what if i want to wave my american flag high while i demand that you accept me, no questions asked? what if i want to complain about how offended i am that your people display the flag of portugal wherever i look?

how barbaric!

how racist!

how predjudiced!

how selfish!

how discriminatory!

how right on target, a-fuckin'-men, tony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom
Regarding foreign workers (why are dark or squinty-eyed people emigrants and fair people expatriates?), it has never been a matter of legislation, as far as I am concerned.

The problem has always been not enough inspections of workplaces and employers,
not enough inspectors that aren't corrupt,
not enough inspectors with the balls to charge people,
Legislation only fails in not providing adequate punishment to fit the crime.

This makes it easier for business, capital and industry to easily buy their way out of the mess they constantly make on:

- the fabric of society (legal and illegal workers and the conditions they are subjected to)

- the environment (to dump on, spill in or smoke up a place is cheaper then doing things clean because the fines and penalties amount to less than a slap on the wrist).
the problem is - we don't kick the fuckers out when we find 'em. and even if we do, at the border for example, that's who gets the proverbial slap on the wrist because they're trying to re-enter moments later.

there's no respect for the law or the process because it's not enforced.
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Old 04-01-2006, 04:22 PM   #63
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I'm always afraid that one of those aliens is going to jump me on the way home and steal my job!

>_>

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Old 04-01-2006, 04:25 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
So if 'the law' is what governs the people and should be used in this argument, then why is it such a large chunk of the US population find themselves on the wrong side of it so often....
they way i grew up - "you break the law, you lose your rights." pretty simple.

even today, once out of prison, a significant number of people from various states are denied the right to vote, even after their sentence is complete.

in some states, despite the fact prisoners spend most of their time in jail studying the law (i'm gonna beat it, you'll see), most don't have a clue about how to get their rights restored once they're out - usually because they're fuckin' ignorant and self-serving, the same attributes that got 'em thrown into the slammer in the first place.

back to what i was taught - once someone loses their right to vote, that person's voice ceases to matter in the grand scheme. i, for one, lose just about all respect for those who spend their time in prison and could care less if anything they want is granted them ever again. i've worked in a prison and i "care for" ex-prisoners here-and-there through the mental health system - quotes used because it's my job and i don't have a choice. in prison, if an inmate died, it didn't phase me. drop, turn blue, do what was required of me - oh well. room for another one now.

the short of it - if you go to prison, your voice is lost, thusly negating your entire post, sternn.
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Old 04-01-2006, 04:33 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Also, lets talk about illegal workers taking US jobs. They don't just pull those jobs out of their arse, they are given jobs by US companies and business persons. Like Wal-Mart getting busted with thousands working there illegally, just one of many who recently got caught, if companies didn't hire illegals, they wouldn't be able to take those jobs.
and if we enforced our laws, illegals wouldn't be around to get the jobs either. even what you wrote - "thousands", in one place of employment... that's incredible. the bush administration has not only dropped the ball when it comes to protecting the borders, they're in a coma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captsternn
It reminds me of a recent sting operation in Richmond me mate sent me links to in the news. They took a very hot blonde girl in a revealing outfit and sent her into clubs asking men to find her drugs, in return for sex (it was never directly stated, but explicitly implied). And the men went and found drugs. The men were then arrested.

Theyn argued in court, that they were setup. Many of these men had never been arrested, were single men in their 40's, and when a hot chick came up and was all over them, hell, she could have asked them to steal a car and they prolly would have tried it.

Didn't work though, they all got sentenced and some got jail time. I mean, these guys didn't have any drugs they just went around the club they were in asking others on behalf of the girl, in an effort to get laid. If the lady hadn't have asked them, and been so tempting, then they wouldn't have bought the drugs.
not really sure just how they tie in together, but all right. the sting operation tackled two problems - infidelity and drugs in one swoop. whoever supplied the drugs, if it was right there in the club, must have been busted as well and those men - all those 40 yr. old, married men you mentioned - i'm gonna bet they won't be so quick to jump in some strange woman's bed any time in the near future if they're offered sex for obtaining something illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captsternn
Much like this, if the jobs were not there and the money was not there, the 'illegals' wouldn't be comnig into the country.

To setup a plate in front of a starving man, then slap cuffs on him when he tries to take a bite seems a bit hypocritical to me.

-S
the plate ain't in front of them. they're on one side of a window and the united states is on the other. your contention is that it's ok to smash the window to get at the plate, rather than making a reservation like civilized human beings.
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Old 04-01-2006, 05:24 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarian Decoding
They charged us to be printed at the building. The application fees were:
*To start application
*Paperwork
*Appointments to the DoHS
*Picture taking
*Passport making
*Registering for Permanent Residenship
*Registering for Citizenship
*Citizenship Ceremony
welcome to america.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
No, because if merely stepping on the soil of the United States, someone's quality of life would go up, then I would be more tenacious in fighting for this position. My point is that once you are in the United States, you have the ability to do more, then in a poverty stricken country.
sure, which is exactly why we, the united states of america, welcome people from all lands onto our soil. it's also why we, the people of the united states of america, have a system for integrating said people into our culture.

you want out of yours (universal)? fine. follow the rules. don't come here and tell us, the people of the united states of america, how it's gonna go down your way and give the finger to our laws. cuz the whole lot of you (universal) arrogant mother-fuckers can kiss our american asses and have fun on your return trip home. i, for one, don't want my country turning into a smelly, third-world cesspool just because people want to come here and bring all their bullshit with them. i like having america as america. i don't want little-mexico or little-china or little-italy or little africa. you want that? go set it up in your own country. i'm the citizen here, not you (universal). this is my country, not yours (universal). deal with it.

that's my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
i think the "hiring metaphor" works very well for the framework you laid down, unless of course you feel that illegal aliens have a right to wander across the border just to suck at the teat of working class america, thusly thumbing their noses at the citizenry in a country they claim they want to be a part of.

I guess I am saying that.
now you're being honest and i have zero respect for anyone that wants to come here and leech off the people of my country. the money i earn should remain within my family's budget - not get funneled off to some fuckhead who comes here to drain both me and my country. someone who would come to this country and do that is not a man - he's a disgrace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
That would inflict your point of views on how someone should be living their lives.
what? everything you've contended thus far admires others for inflicting their views and action upon the way americans live their lives. you're another anti-american kid, aren't you? you leave your country, come to america, finally have a voice and ouala - you open it to tear america down.

you can come here, but you still hate the country. for shame. well, at least you're another mainstream-type-of-kid. as long as you say you hate the american way, you'll have friends all over the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
For instance, if someone had "Legal" history, how do we know those charges are valid? The "Ties to Enemies or General Shitbaggery", would have to provide that you can both prove they are an enemy, and for what reason they are an enemy, along with knowing their intentions. Tax money for working Americans should be made to our lives better, I agree with this. But who is "Our", dare I ask? Is it the general population the United States, who actually work, as most illegal immigrants do, or is it those chosen few, who actually get the oppertunity to apply?
figuring out someone's background and history is the responsibility of the department of naturalization. some are accepted, some are not. that's the luck of the game, kid. it's not the responsibility of america to bring every unfortunate into our land. what will we have then? a bunch of people standing around inside a fallen country that's been drowned.

and as far as whose lives should be improved via the system of taxation in america - american citizens fall inside that category. period. an illegal immigrant deserves nothing, except deportation.

here's some paperwork and good bye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
It's not racist, but it wastes your time, and drains your resources. The entitlement comes from the fact that when people say, "This land is our land", they are simply saying, "Ha ha, I have guns, you can't come here".
oh, it's been called racist and much more. listen to the liberals. they're out of their minds, tearing their hair out because they see potential democrats, all 28 million illegals, on the verge of being kicked out.

as far as resources drained - illegals drain more resources than government employees who are hired to do a certain job ever will. the MOST draining of the resources has to do with both illegal aliens inside this country AND government employees with a specific job to do, who don't do it - namely the INS.

and the problem absolutely IS that we DON'T protect our borders the way you just outlined. how wonderful it would be if we used our guns to protect the borders. but we don't. and it's a shame.

your arguments again point at america as being the bad seed, instead of pointing at the miscreants who take advantage of the beyond-generous lattitude this country has offered thus far to illegals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
it's sad, really when you stop for a moment and think about it. people have become such pussies of late - the last 20 years or so. when they don't get what they want, right when they want it, they cry to whomever will listen and complain, complain, complain instead of doing what the rules say in order to get what they say they want.

Isn't that called the American dream?
no. the american dream historically was for americans who were born of meager means to have both the chance and opportunity to work for a better life.

it was extended to immigrants who came from other countries to become americans so they could have the same opportunities as those who were born here.

it had nothing to do with allowing people to sneak into the country while they ignored the laws and culture into which they'd come. that's not what the american dream was about, ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
But where does that end? When Country-X incorporates more people into it's country, doesn't it just become larger? Do not the rules simply become wider, or change in some form? The citizens have the right to vote, and they should, as laid down by the constitution. With that said, it is my belief that anyone who comes to America should also have that right.
those who come into the country, legally, become citizens and have a voice. they are then free to vote and make their voice heard about what they want in terms of america and american ways.

illegals don't have a voice.

according to your line of argument, if someone is visiting the country from lithuania, for example, during an election year - that visitor should have the ability to vote in the american election because he's here in america and should have a voice, which of course is absurd. where do we draw the line, in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
the place to start is the office of integration and naturalization. once there, ask about how one becomes a citizen. learn english so you can understand the answer... and follow the rules.

The place you actually start, is at the border, where they give you six months to become a temporary permenant resident. As soon as you fail to do that, you're screwed.
even better. and yeah, if you fail to do what you're supposed to start doing in 6 mos., i'd say you're pretty much a lazy, good for nothing piece of shit who's likely come here, applied for and received some form of government benefit - i.e. - pulled money out of my paycheck.

good riddance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
But, it's still an ideal we chase after, is it not? I understand why the world is so cruel, so, why can't we change it? I may lack experience, or I may just be looking at it from a different point of view.
no. it's an ideal bleeding hearts chase after. there's no "we" in your question.

your desire to allow illegal aliens to change american law is insanity and a self-destructive insanity at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
How? How can they hurt the community
dropping property values. increase in crime, including gang activity. increasing population and draining resources without contributing. requiring special tutoring in school, disrupting the classroom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
how can they hurt the people
increase in crime, including drug and gang activity. disrespect for the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
how can they hurt themselves by not learning the language?
showing up in hospitals and not being able to explain, in english, what's wrong. disrupting the classroom and keeping american children back, in essence, because they need special tutoring. getting taken advantage of by employers and others because they don't understand what's being said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
Are they not just enriching the country with thier presence? I thought bringing in new ideals and people was a good thing.
enriching the country? are you kidding me? you gonna move a few of them into your home to enrich your life?

that might be the funniest thing i've read all night.
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Old 04-01-2006, 05:26 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Icarian Decoding
It's not neccesarily okay, but last time I checked, sometimes it was.
If everyone started breathing, does that make it okay?
that's how you qualify your statement "but last time I checked, sometimes it was"?

everyone does breathe. there's no argument there.
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Old 04-01-2006, 06:08 PM   #68
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sure, which is exactly why we, the united states of america, welcome people from all lands onto our soil. it's also why we, the people of the united states of america, have a system for integrating said people into our culture.

you want out of yours (universal)? fine. follow the rules. don't come here and tell us, the people of the united states of america, how it's gonna go down your way and give the finger to our laws. cuz the whole lot of you (universal) arrogant mother-fuckers can kiss our american asses and have fun on your return trip home. i, for one, don't want my country turning into a smelly, third-world cesspool just because people want to come here and bring all their bullshit with them. i like having america as america. i don't want little-mexico or little-china or little-italy or little africa. you want that? go set it up in your own country. i'm the citizen here, not you (universal). this is my country, not yours (universal). deal with it.


So, then I guess it's going to have to come down to us[Universal], either fighting for what we[universal] want, and killing people.


now you're being honest and i have zero respect for anyone that wants to come here and leech off the people of my country. the money i earn should remain within my family's budget - not get funneled off to some fuckhead who comes here to drain both me and my country. someone who would come to this country and do that is not a man - he's a disgrace.
And how do you expect this man, to change, to get better, to gain something, so he can give back?



what? everything you've contended thus far admires others for inflicting their views and action upon the way americans live their lives. you're another anti-american kid, aren't you? you leave your country, come to america, finally have a voice and ouala - you open it to tear america down.

I am not an Anti-American kid. I don't want to tear down anything. I simply don't understand it. I don't understand why the world can't be better, and why we

you can come here, but you still hate the country. for shame. well, at least you're another mainstream-type-of-kid. as long as you say you hate the american way, you'll have friends all over the world.

Actually, I don't hate the country. I joined ROTC so I could help improve it. Now that I look around, I see the flaws in the system, and I want to change it. I want to help people. Not hate the "American Way".

figuring out someone's background and history is the responsibility of the department of naturalization. some are accepted, some are not. that's the luck of the game, kid. it's not the responsibility of america to bring every unfortunate into our land. what will we have then? a bunch of people standing around inside a fallen country that's been drowned.

But atleast we would have tried.

and as far as whose lives should be improved via the system of taxation in america - american citizens fall inside that category. period. an illegal immigrant deserves nothing, except deportation.

So basically, you don't give them a chance to improve their lives? It's just, "Up yours and fuck it too"? Why?

as far as resources drained - illegals drain more resources than government employees who are hired to do a certain job ever will. the MOST draining of the resources has to do with both illegal aliens inside this country AND government employees with a specific job to do, who don't do it - namely the INS.
So, who's fault is it, and who should be kicked out? The Alien who came inside and worked, or the guy who didn't do his job?

and the problem absolutely IS that we DON'T protect our borders the way you just outlined. how wonderful it would be if we used our guns to protect the borders. but we don't. and it's a shame.

your arguments again point at america as being the bad seed, instead of pointing at the miscreants who take advantage of the beyond-generous lattitude this country has offered thus far to illegals.


Why? Should we just kill people, who are trying to better their lives? I'm trying not to say that anyone is a bad seed, but shouldn't we atleast try and help them? Instead of killing them, why not give them one more hand out, one more try.


no. the american dream historically was for americans who were born of meager means to have both the chance and opportunity to work for a better life.
Which means that anyone who comes here, and has meager means, under the above arguements, would have no chance.

it was extended to immigrants who came from other countries to become americans so they could have the same opportunities as those who were born here.

it had nothing to do with allowing people to sneak into the country while they ignored the laws and culture into which they'd come. that's not what the american dream was about, ever.


I was always told the American dream was that people could come, with nothing but a single penny to their name, and become better. I guess I was wrong.

those who come into the country, legally, become citizens and have a voice. they are then free to vote and make their voice heard about what they want in terms of america and american ways.

illegals don't have a voice.

according to your line of argument, if someone is visiting the country from lithuania, for example, during an election year - that visitor should have the ability to vote in the american election because he's here in america and should have a voice, which of course is absurd. where do we draw the line, in your opinion?


We draw the line at those who come and want to stay. Someone who is just visting, shouldn't get a voice. Someone who has been here for a while, should.

even better. and yeah, if you fail to do what you're supposed to start doing in 6 mos., i'd say you're pretty much a lazy, good for nothing piece of shit who's likely come here, applied for and received some form of government benefit - i.e. - pulled money out of my paycheck.

It's pretty hard actually. You need to get the paperwork through, which takes a while. You also need to set up a house, and earn enough bills to prove you have been there.


no. it's an ideal bleeding hearts chase after. there's no "we" in your question.

your desire to allow illegal aliens to change american law is insanity and a self-destructive insanity at that.


Then howdo you actually help anyone? How do you change the law to help people, who can't help themselves?

dropping property values. increase in crime, including gang activity. increasing population and draining resources without contributing. requiring special tutoring in school, disrupting the classroom. increase in crime, including drug and gang activity. disrespect for the law. showing up in hospitals and not being able to explain, in english, what's wrong. disrupting the classroom and keeping american children back, in essence, because they need special tutoring. getting taken advantage of by employers and others because they don't understand what's being said.

I didn't know that.

enriching the country? are you kidding me? you gonna move a few of them into your home to enrich your life?

I guess not.
So, might as well take a shotgun, and shoot every fucker who crosses the border.
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Old 04-01-2006, 06:09 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edible_eye
that's how you qualify your statement "but last time I checked, sometimes it was"?

everyone does breathe. there's no argument there.
The bridge arguement assumes everyone is doing something bad.
Sometimes, when alot of people do something, it's good for others. Sometimes it's not.
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Old 04-02-2006, 06:16 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarian Decoding
So, then I guess it's going to have to come down to us[Universal], either fighting for what we[universal] want, and killing people.
sadly, this is probably what it would take for a swift enforcement of the law. the thought of illegal aliens killing american citizens to show how they desire citizenship... yeah, that'd do it. they'd be rounded up faster than it takes liquid nitrogen to freeze water.

and kicked the fuck out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
And how do you expect this man, to change, to get better, to gain something, so he can give back?
i don't expect anything from anyone. i work for my keep. i don't give two shits about "him" or his family. they're not my responsibility. that's the point. i don't want to pay for him and his, not one extra cent.

achieve your citizenship the right way or get out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoding
I am not an Anti-American kid. I don't want to tear down anything. I simply don't understand it. I don't understand why the world can't be better, and why we
another incomplete thought.

i realize you don't understand it. you will, hopefully, when your mind matures a bit more, when you've gained sufficient life experience. if not, you can always run for a position in politics as a democrat. they're always looking for new blood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
Actually, I don't hate the country. I joined ROTC so I could help improve it. Now that I look around, I see the flaws in the system, and I want to change it. I want to help people. Not hate the "American Way".
good for you. really, i'm not being a dick when i say that.

again, look toward a career in politics. at least then you can REALLY say you want to make a better, more improved america while you're doing relatively nothing.

someone in your family saw "flaws" in the system of life wherever you were from. so, they brought you here and decided to make a life, instead of staying where they were and trying to "fix" the system there. why do people come HERE and try to "fix" the system, rather than puffing up their chests and working on the problems at their own home first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
So basically, you don't give them a chance to improve their lives? It's just, "Up yours and fuck it too"? Why?
because it's neither my responsibility nor my desire to give anyone anything.

anyone coming to this country legally has a chance to improve his or her life and there is a way to go about it. we've covered this already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
So, who's fault is it, and who should be kicked out? The Alien who came inside and worked, or the guy who didn't do his job?
get rid of the illegals. out. gone. bye-bye. come back when you're ready to play by the rules.

and people from the ins who aren't doing their job should be fired, or re-positioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
Why? Should we just kill people, who are trying to better their lives? I'm trying not to say that anyone is a bad seed, but shouldn't we atleast try and help them? Instead of killing them, why not give them one more hand out, one more try.
i'm not advocating outright killing - i say, give 'em 2 warning shots first. to me, that's two handouts already.

one thing about human nature - give someone a handout, they learn quickly that there's another one coming if they sit around long enough. giving people handouts isn't helping in the long run unless there's some sense of work ethic buried somewhere inside first. and someone coming to america illegally, only to receive handouts after he gets here, learns that free money is the way he wants to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
I was always told the American dream was that people could come, with nothing but a single penny to their name, and become better. I guess I was wrong.
you have an interesting all-or-nothing way about you.

yes, people CAN come with nothing but a penny to their name and YES, they can succeed - but the primary principle of this is that they become legal citizens first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
We draw the line at those who come and want to stay. Someone who is just visting, shouldn't get a voice. Someone who has been here for a while, should.
what about student visas? people with work permits for a year or more? you're giving me vague answers to vague situations.

the right to vote and be heard BELONGS to the american citizenry. that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
It's pretty hard actually. You need to get the paperwork through, which takes a while. You also need to set up a house, and earn enough bills to prove you have been there.
it's not hard. you either get the ball rolling or you don't. i work with many, many people from many places around the globe who arrived here, wanted to be citizens and got the ball rolling so they could work. that's it. that's all you need - to get it started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
Then howdo you actually help anyone? How do you change the law to help people, who can't help themselves?
you flip-flop worse than john kerry, my friend. on the one hand, you say people come here to improve their lives. on the other, you continue to assert that "i", which i take to mean america, has to help them.

and i already covered this ground.

legal citizenship means a voice in government. vote to effect whatever "changes" you feel are necessary once you're a citizen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
dropping property values. increase in crime, including gang activity. increasing population and draining resources without contributing. requiring special tutoring in school, disrupting the classroom. increase in crime, including drug and gang activity. disrespect for the law. showing up in hospitals and not being able to explain, in english, what's wrong. disrupting the classroom and keeping american children back, in essence, because they need special tutoring. getting taken advantage of by employers and others because they don't understand what's being said.

I didn't know that.
then pay attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icarian decoder
enriching the country? are you kidding me? you gonna move a few of them into your home to enrich your life?

I guess not.
So, might as well take a shotgun, and shoot every fucker who crosses the border.
that's against the law.

this isn't all about you or all about me. this is about america and the miscreants who have taken it upon themselves to disregard the basics of life in a country they say they want to become part of.

now, if the border patrol was given the right to "shoot every fucker who crosses the border", that'd be one thing. but you - no. that'd just land you in jail and your voice would be lost.
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Old 04-02-2006, 09:07 AM   #71
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You know what? America is an amazing place, and the reason you know it's amazing because people take amazing lengths to get here. If some one is willing to be crammed into a 19x20 foot crate, 25 people per crate, just to get the chance to be here, we've got to think about that. If people are willing to come here on a floating door, we've got to think about that. If people are willing to put their lives, and the lives of their families at risk, we've got to think about that as well. The United States is the World's police force, the World's bank, the World's industrial leader, the leader in technology, and the bringer to technology and democracy to the World. What does all that mean if we can't be the world's haven?

We were founded on the concept of free immigration, and allowing anyone on earth the chance to find their dreams, free from oppression and fear. Deporting immigrants as a first resort isn't just immoral, it goes against the very basis of what America is. It's the attitude of all isolationists, and those who would wish to horde everything for themselves. I can understand the hedonistic attitudes of some, where it is all for pleasure for themselves. I can understand why some do not want foreigners to come in, under the impression they might be terrorists. This is no reason why America should close it's arms, and deny every man, woman, and child not born here, to be an American.

Speaking from personal experience, I can tell you America is a wonderful land. It has beautiful landscape, a rich culture, and the most well-defined law I have seen in a while. The problem is that this well-defined law violates what the country was founded on. The constitution provides that any Citizen of the United States is allowed to vote, to hold their opinion. What does being a citizen, actually mean? Does it mean that we turn our backs on other nations, people, and eventually cultures, who can't help themselves, due to old regimes across the world? No. Being a Citizen is a wonderful thing, and should be earned. It means that you are now accepted as one, you are now among the strongest country on Earth, one of the few remaining superpowers.

In the course of earning this Citizenship, should we deny someone the ability because of past allegiances, the lack of money to support their families, or the fact that because they are so destitute, they can't find work? I say no. I put my foot down at the lack of generosity, the lack of open arms, and fellow brotherhood among those who would hold anyone who doesn't come in through completely legal channels. They may hold terrorist allies, they may be families with those related to 9/11. They may be out of luck, and need a new chance. I say we give it to them.

Some say they provide an increase in crime, they take away from other Americans, and they slow down the system. Perhaps they should. What is a system, if there is no one to support it? How can a system of integration and naturalization be effective, if you can't actually make it through the system? When in the course of events, the common man, below the poverty line, cannot come here because he has no money, no job, and no education, then maybe it's time to change.

You see, when you don't give someone the opportunity to improve, you remove their entire ability to become a legal citizen. Even born citizens of the United States, sometimes can't find a job under six months. Why should we force a poor man from another country, to do the same? I understand that it is a drain on society, and I am perfectly willing to accept that it is. If by giving something away, I can help another man become a fellow American, then so be it. If you aren't willing to forgo some of the greater things you have been given, then are you really an American? The constitution was founded on the ideal of freedom, on the ideal of the common man, and on the ideal of peace and brotherhood for everyone. This is exemplified in the statue of liberty, which states;

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!!


I dare any man who calls himself a patriot, to look upon these words and deny them. This statue, which was one of the first sights anyone who came to the United States would see, carried words that would ring eternal. Some will disagree that they should be given this as a birthright. I say it should be. Anyone who comes to America, as a human with open arms, looking for a better life, should be given what this statue calls out.

We should take all of the tired, the poor, the masses who have been put under the oppression of third world countries and let them into our country. It may slow down your life, but you are one man. It is the sacrifice, to help the many. Let the homeless, the poor, the hungry and those without guidance be put to America, and given all the rights of the citizen. Even the Declaration of Independence called for this, in these words;

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I say that our Government now, has become destructive to the ends of the people. The people may need to alter or abolish, for when America denies anyone the ability to become an American, there is something amiss. The people of other nations should be allowed into our country, for the Safety and Happiness it provides, or at least the chance of such.

Even the constitution left this for the people;

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

How shall you instill liberty upon a man, and promote the General welfare of beings, deserving the right to be called Americans, if you deny hm access to the country? I also think I understand why some come to America illegal; they have no other choice. It has been proven, over and over again, that the US Gov't only let's a set amount of people in: 20,000.

Considering that 150,000 try and come into the US, that means that 130,000 people, don't get to become citizens.

Is that really fair?

And on another side issue, you know how you said that you wouldn't help someone, because it wasn't your responsibility. Well, to me, "someone who would come to this country and do that is not a man - he's a disgrace."
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Old 04-03-2006, 04:34 AM   #72
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Ican -

I was just about to make that point. The whole 'world police', 'world superpower', 'world bank', leader of 'G8', but hey, stay the hell away from our country because we don't want you, but have no problem controlling yer small countries economy, sending in our troops when we feel its nessessary, and basically trying to govern ye through proxy.

But yeah, stay the hell away from our country because you have yer own (We control).

I think it's funny there is currently a ban on Iraqi citizens flying into the states. 'We are here to bring you the same freedom we have! Oh yeah, your no longer allowed to travel to our country to see that freedom'.

Also the one big glaring issue that no one here has even touched on is the fact that only America keeps all these detailed records of birth/death/employement/etc.

I mean, in Ireland, we just got drivers licenses 2 years ago. Prior to that anyone could drive if they could afford a car. Birth certs prior to the 70's is almost unheard of. Same with death certs. The UK also is at a loss for records prior to the early 50's or so.

And thats the nations who KEEP good records. I have mates from Latvia, Poland, Russia, Georgia, etc. They never even had birth certs. They were born in their parents home. When they get to the country here, they have no papers. Guess what? When they get to America they don't have 'em either. There isn't an African in America who brough papers with 'em. Same with most Eastern Europeans.

So basically all this 'background checking' is shite. There is nothing they can really check except interpol and see if the person is a wanted international fugative wanted for some huge crime. If they aren't a Chechnyan mob-boss, they are pretty much free to enter the states if they can pay the fees.

If you visit the various websites that deal with US citizenship you can see its based on a lottery. Random people are picked. It has fuck-all to do with who you are. It comes down to who can afford to pay to get into the system.

There was a great show on Discovery last week about the new Russian mafia in New York. All these former KGB officers have brought in the best of the best criminals into the states, using bogus background storeys, and now are operating huge criminal syndicates that dwarf anything the old Italian mafia ever tried. They specialise in identify theft, phone scams, and my favorite, energy trading. Thats right, I'll find some links on that, but they setup bogus oil companies made people think they were Texans, and got away with a few hundred million from some high profile people. Stilll haven't been caught.

But I digress. My point is all this technology to track 'illegals' and such is nothing more than a ploy to track the average US citizen. Immigrants, legal or not, come to America with whatever storey they want to sell - and they is no way outside the states to back it up. I'm glad the people feel safer that everyone is fingerprinted and they run checks and take pictures, but guess what? It means nothing when it comes to security.

And those who want to get through the system to take advantage of it will, legally or illegally. To attack those who are too poor to actually beat the system is an attack on society, not on your laws.

Much like a car window, it's there to stop the casual thief. A determined criminal will get through without an issue. The immigration laws in the states merely are window dressing and give a hot button issue on nothing to keep people fighting while politicians are able to manuever around other more complex issues.
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Old 04-04-2006, 03:03 PM   #73
Dead Angel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xnguela
It's natural for you to be pissed that people are protesting for their RIGHTS?! How the fuck is that natural?
Hey DUMBSHIT. IOs Cost aMesa, my hometown ther ewas a law that made all people pulled over get a imigration check, and GUESS WHAT? PEOPLE BITCHED AND RIOTED!

So police do their job and check legal status and then send the intfo off to the immigration service and get yelled at. Yea.. protect the illegial immigrant's right not the be found by immigration services in the US......
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Old 04-04-2006, 03:07 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh
You're right about the "you must not live in my neighbourhood"-bit. As you can plainly see, I live in Norway. It's another country altogether! Imagine that.

And, to quote from your rather incoherent and vague piece of writing here, you mean to say that it's "natural for people" to "pass a law that hurts us or our future"? What does that even mean anyway?! You are making no sense.

Also, in case you didn't know; you have a one-track mind.
Hey EUROPEAN... shut the fuck up.

There is one other nation I will listen to (or people from said nation) about immigration: Australia because it seems Ausies have a bit of a iimgration problem.

When did immigration become a problem in Norway? THEN you CAN SPEAK. NOT BEFORE!

I'm sick and tired of nonamercians giving fucking oninformed opinions of immigration and illegal immigrants.
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Old 04-04-2006, 04:10 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Angel
I'm sick and tired of nonamercians giving fucking oninformed opinions of immigration and illegal immigrants.
You make it seem like the United States is the only country people are moving to. You also make it seem like being a member of said country is the only way one can comment on their policy. Unfortunately, the claim that others don't have the wherewithal to comment on a nation they don't belong to didn't stop you from making comments about where they lived. You also lumped all Europeans together with that comment... the combination shows an astounding lack of critical thought. In addition:

...nonamercians....

...oninformed...

This tells me you were typing without care for presentation, which implies a certain emotional anxiety about the topic. Maybe if you were more level-headed you could do some research, and decide to partake of a dialogue about the issue, as opposed to inflammatory and ignorant commentary.

Don't be a fucktard.
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