Mass Shooting, Dark Knight Rises, 14 dead

[Versus]

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Versus

15% of Americans live in poverty as of 2011.

In 2007, 30% of low income (not poverty) persons paid more then half their income on housing.

The cost of child care for those in poverty averages to 30% of a households income, 18% for those living just above the poverty line.

On average, health care costs 60% of the income of low income households.

In 2008,
64% of low income households were found to have hardship with the cost of food.

The average cost of food for the bottom 20% of household income is 20%.

Listen to me, you privileged piece of shit. Millions of Americans can barely afford just to fucking live. They have to chose between paying their rent, raising their kids, keeping their family healthy, and feeding themselves. They do not make enough money to have all of that.

THEY HAVE TO CHOSE WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT.

Do you fucking understand what that means? 250 fucking dollars is more then millions of Americans can dream about spending on bullshit like a fucking gun, a safety that SHOULD BE INHERENTLY PROVIDED TO THEM.

Putting it in all Caps doesn't make your argument any better.

Answer me this....How many firearms have been bought on the national level even though our nation and it's people are having such a rough time?

From 2010-through the current year Firearms sales have been on a steady rise,so even though everybody has been having it tough,people have realized that their own defense and safety is up to them, even more so in places where the Police forces have had a number of layoffs due to lack of funds.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Besides Versus you're trying to strawman argument your way off topic.

and the topic isn't about People being poor,it's about a warped bastard that opened fire on a group of unarmed folks at a movie theater.

And what I have said is that people can and should take their own personal defense into their own hands instead of trust in a mythical "Safety Zone"

Because such things don't exsist in the real world.

As the spree shooter in this case hammered home,through his violent actions.

[BourbonBoy]

It wasn't a gun free zone Deadman.
Colorado concealed weapon license regulations:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

On page four you'll find that in Colorado the only places where a weapon is restricted from being carried is on school property, practically nowhere else. Bottom of page four clearly states that in Colorado "No Gun" signs have no force of law. They're nothing more than politely asking someone not to carry a firearm.

As towards that "strawman" you accused Versus of using, in my own experience he's right. I had a friend who was scared for her life due to her ex-husband stalking her and she wanted a firearm for protection. However, her finances wouldn't allow her to purchase a firearm because she only makes about $1200 a month, a fourth of which goes to child support. Add rent, insurance, other amenities and she has tops $50 to spend on anything she wants later on, which most of the time is reserved for when she has her daughter for the weekend. The lowest price in my area for a firearm is $300 before sales tax, which means even if she saved up for it since layaway is a foreign commie concept, it would still take almost 7 months before she could afford one if she saved up for it.

So riddle me this, how is she supposed to buy a firearm when she can barely afford to feed herself?

[Saya]

Yeah really. A lot of people are stoked when they have money for things like clothes or new underwear, let alone try to save up hundreds for something they'll probably never need.

Disability must pay a lot out for people like Deadman to build up an arsenal. He's as out of touch about what its like to be working poor as Romney.

[Andrias]

Not exactly, given there are now online black markets (The Silk Road, The Armory) only accessible through IP encryption protocols, many more people are able to buy goods, contraband, and all manner of things illegal from countries all over the world. I wouldn't hold that against him, if he has any advanced technical knowledge he can do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Ro...marketplace%29

A friend of mine who is my age is always asking me to buy him guns and drugs from these sites, but I politley refuse, though he offers a lot because he's a successful rapper.

[Andrias]

Originally Posted by Andrias

A friend of mine who is my age is always asking me to buy him guns and drugs from these sites, but I politley refuse, though he offers a lot because he's a successful rapper.

I should also clarify he is one of those nutcases that believes the world will end in Dec 2012 and thinks he's going to need them. So, no, I don't want to arm a nutjob that will do something like this...

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Andrias

Not exactly, given there are now online black markets (The Silk Road, The Armory) only accessible through IP encryption protocols, many more people are able to buy goods, contraband, and all manner of things illegal from countries all over the world. I wouldn't hold that against him, if he has any advanced technical knowledge he can do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Ro...marketplace%29

A friend of mine who is my age is always asking me to buy him guns and drugs from these sites, but I politley refuse, though he offers a lot because he's a successful rapper.

How much is a gun from one of those kinds of websites? And lets not forget either that a lot of people can't afford to get caught.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

It must really piss you guys and gals off when I srtick to a topic and answer your arguments with logic.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Saya

How much is a gun from one of those kinds of websites? And lets not forget either that a lot of people can't afford to get caught.

The firearms that I have listed can't be legally purchased without going through an F.F.L. holder,and they would need to pass the NICS background check.

[Miss Absynthe]

[quote=Deadmanwalking_05;698783]

Originally Posted by Alan

Yes, and if they had a tank they would have avoided the situation altogether.[/QUOTE

Al you're just pissed off because I'm right.

and just put most of the arguments against a defensive firearm in the hands of law abiding citizen in this situation to bed.

Besides how would someone get a tank into a theater without disturbing the rest of the movie goers.....and without causing a lot of damage to the theater?

Dude.. this is so close to victim-blaming that it's scary.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

[quote=Miss Absynthe;698829]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

Dude.. this is so close to victim-blaming that it's scary.

But it isn't Victim blaming.

[Miss Absynthe]

You are basically saying that if these people had chosen to carry they wouldn't be dead. How is that not victim-blaming?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

You are basically saying that if these people had chosen to carry they wouldn't be dead. How is that not victim-blaming?

How is it victim blaming?

I'm not saying that any of the victims forced the warped bastard to walk in and shoot up the crowd.

All I have said is that one or two people with a firearm could have put an end to the rampage.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

You are basically saying that if these people had chosen to carry they wouldn't be dead. How is that not victim-blaming?

Further more why haven't you or any of the other usual soap boxers on this site posted a response in the "Self Defense stories" thread?

Or do you like to avoid facts on such issues,because you (as well as others) can't seem to wrap your mind around the concept of armed self defense actually being the most effective way to stop violent criminal actions?

[Miss Absynthe]

And if someone who is ***** was carrying a gun they wouldn't have been ***** - it's victim-blaming.

You might want to do some research into Invulnerability Theory... it's an interesting topic.

[Miss Absynthe]

Really, GNet? I can say "fuck", but I can't say "****"?

Because r... a... p... e isn't a real thing that needs to be talked about?

[Miss Absynthe]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

Further more why haven't you or any of the other usual soap boxers on this site posted a response in the "Self Defense stories" thread?

Or do you like to avoid facts on such issues,because you (as well as others) can't seem to wrap your mind around the concept of armed self defense actually being the most effective way to stop violent criminal actions?

Now, I've been polite and courteous to you.. so why are you going to turn this into a personal argument by colouring me as a 'soap boxer'?

There may be many many reasons why I don't want to post in your other thread.. for instance, I might be at work and not able to access the video link that you have listed there. Or, I might just not WANT to post in response to that thread. And, I'm pretty much allowed to do whatever I want. Wouldn't you agree?

You don't know anything about me at all.. so what is with the presupposition that with regards to my personal views on carrying weapons or armed self-defence? Do you even know what my views are?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

Really, GNet? I can say "fuck", but I can't say "****"?

Because r... a... p... e isn't a real thing that needs to be talked about?

Yeah don't you just love censorship?

But anyway....

One of the defensive stories deals with such a situation.

[ape descendant]

It has been quite a sad tragedy. My heart goes out to every one who's suffered from this.

I think for many of us, our minds race to figure out how we can prevent such events from happening in the future, some wish to assign blame. I don't think the answer lies in blaming media or guns.

Perhaps there is a more humanitarian way of making the world a little better and safer. In much of our culture, there is a stigma put upon those who suffer from mental illness, that stigma extends to those who seek help for it, that compounded with the costs of mental health services can be a deterrent for those who would benefit from therapies and medications that are currently unavailable to them.

I was thinking about this, because its not exactly common for people to run out and randomly hurt and kill other people, it rather indicates that there's a deeper issue which needs to be addressed.

Two things I think would help, and would be good to work toward either way:

1) Working to lessen and abolish the stigma surrounding people with mental issues or illness

2) Making therapies and medications more readily available to the average person.

Just my two cents.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

Now, I've been polite and courteous to you.. so why are you going to turn this into a personal argument by colouring me as a 'soap boxer'?

There may be many many reasons why I don't want to post in your other thread.. for instance, I might be at work and not able to access the video link that you have listed there. Or, I might just not WANT to post in response to that thread. And, I'm pretty much allowed to do whatever I want. Wouldn't you agree?

You don't know anything about me at all.. so what is with the presupposition that with regards to my personal views on carrying weapons or armed self-defence? Do you even know what my views are?

I'm sure you can do so when you get home....so no biggie on that one.

No I don't know what your views are but would like to know (even though I'm pretty sure those views are what I figure they are judging by this spot and all)

[Miss Absynthe]

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

I'm sure you can do so when you get home....so no biggie on that one.

No I don't know what your views are but would like to know (even though I'm pretty sure those views are what I figure they are judging by this spot and all)

Thank you for totally disregarding the point that I might be simply choosing not to reply to that thread.

How is it that you are 'pretty sure' that my views are what you think that they are?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

Thank you for totally disregarding the point that I might be simply choosing not to reply to that thread.

How is it that you are 'pretty sure' that my views are what you think that they are?

Well if you would like we can talk about this through PM if you don't feel comfortable saying such in the forum.

[Miss Absynthe]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

It has been quite a sad tragedy. My heart goes out to every one who's suffered from this.

I think for many of us, our minds race to figure out how we can prevent such events from happening in the future, some wish to assign blame. I don't think the answer lies in blaming media or guns.

Perhaps there is a more humanitarian way of making the world a little better and safer. In much of our culture, there is a stigma put upon those who suffer from mental illness, that stigma extends to those who seek help for it, that compounded with the costs of mental health services can be a deterrent for those who would benefit from therapies and medications that are currently unavailable to them.

I was thinking about this, because its not exactly common for people to run out and randomly hurt and kill other people, it rather indicates that there's a deeper issue which needs to be addressed.

Two things I think would help, and would be good to work toward either way:

1) Working to lessen and abolish the stigma surrounding people with mental issues or illness

2) Making therapies and medications more readily available to the average person.

Just my two cents.

I've not read a great deal about all of this because I find it extremely triggering and at times I am happy in my ignorance.. but did the person in question have a mental illness? Because I've not seen anything about that in the small number of reports that I've read.

I mean, I can understand people doing the 'normal people don't shoot people in cinemas, so he must be ill' thing.. but isn't this the sort of thinking that actually stigmatises mental illness?

There are more violent crimes committed by people without mental illness than by people with them... and sometimes people just do fucked up things.

By the way.. this isn't to say that I disagree with your ideas about making mental health services more accessible - bring that shit on!

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by BourbonBoy

It wasn't a gun free zone Deadman.
Colorado concealed weapon license regulations:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

On page four you'll find that in Colorado the only places where a weapon is restricted from being carried is on school property, practically nowhere else. Bottom of page four clearly states that in Colorado "No Gun" signs have no force of law. They're nothing more than politely asking someone not to carry a firearm.

As towards that "strawman" you accused Versus of using, in my own experience he's right. I had a friend who was scared for her life due to her ex-husband stalking her and she wanted a firearm for protection. However, her finances wouldn't allow her to purchase a firearm because she only makes about $1200 a month, a fourth of which goes to child support. Add rent, insurance, other amenities and she has tops $50 to spend on anything she wants later on, which most of the time is reserved for when she has her daughter for the weekend. The lowest price in my area for a firearm is $300 before sales tax, which means even if she saved up for it since layaway is a foreign commie concept, it would still take almost 7 months before she could afford one if she saved up for it.

So riddle me this, how is she supposed to buy a firearm when she can barely afford to feed herself?

The owner of the theater had the "Gun buster" signs posted,so yes in fact it was a Gun Free zone.