This makes me sick

[Cen0bite]

It's nothin' new really, but it still makes me so angry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNLuSlDDxZs

[Jaye Jang]

Cen0bite, thanks for that. That was horrifying. Unfortunately, that is what they teach.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Jaye Jang

Cen0bite, thanks for that. That was horrifying. Unfortunately, that is what they teach.

Please stop being a racist uninformed cunt.

Thanks.

Stop believing all this shit propaganda against Islam, the nuts represent such a small minority. There's just as many crazies that are Christians, or even Jews or any other religion. Just look at the 2-3 Muslims we have on these forums, are they murderers? No, it's a minority, get your facts straight.

[Cicero]

Honor killings are just plain fucked. No basis in the Koran whatsoever, and yet people still use it to defend such despicable actions, against FAMILY MEMBERS no less.

I can't even begin to describe how much this sort of shit disgusts me.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Once again, it's an extremely small minority. The vast majority of Muslims are non-violent, but the ones you hear about are the ones that blow themselves up. Because that's the message the U.S puts out, to justify invading the Middle East.

[Cicero]

I wasn't saying it's a Muslim thing to do. In fact it's pretty damn non-Muslim. I just said it's what's used to justify honor killings.

I've lived in two officially Muslim countries for over 15 years, I think my view of Islam is pretty damn well informed in comparison to most 'Western' people's.

(I should also add that in those 15 years, I heard of not one single case of this happening in either of those countries. It's pretty well isolated to areas of major fanaticism - including areas where those fanatics have immigrated to)

[PortraitOfSanity]

Ahh, ok, I misinterpreted you then. My apologies.

[Cicero]

No worries =]. I agree with you totally on the demonisation of Islam, by the way. And I don't think Jaye Jang would necessarily disagree either.

[Jaye Jang]

You both have my apologies. I have friends who are Islamic and who are as horrified by the 'honor killings' as my Oriental and Turkish friends are when it happens in their societies. Unfortunately, however, that is what the fringe groups teach - and they consider 'honor' killings justifiable.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Why is it whenever someone says something homophobic, racist, sexist etc, the first thing they always say is "I have friends who are ______"

I don't know you, and you may be telling the truth for all I know, but having friends who are Islamic obviously didn't stop you from making the ignorant comments that you made.

[Jaye Jang]

Excuse me if I have offended you, POS, but kindly define 'racism' for me. You see, I'm a poor ignornant older person who grew up on a fully integrated Army post, whose back yard looked like a summit committee of the U.N., whose friends were from all cultures and races, and who did not even know there was such a word -- or concept-- as racism until my dad was stationed down South and at the ripe old age of 13 I got my front teeth knocked out (I'm female, by the way) for hanging out with my black friends. Didn't know that that was not 'done' there, did not know why, and did not understand THEIR attitude. Had never encountered it before. I continued to hang out with my friends, by the way. Upshot: We had to leave real fast one might when our front windows were shot out, and the racists painted "N***** lover" on the side of our house -- before setting it on fire. I still have to wear a bite block on my teeth, and yes I still have black, Hispanic, Native-American, etc. friends, and yes I still live in racist place and yes I still get death threats -- and no I still don't plan to change my friends. In short, hot shot, when you have 'walked the walk', then 'talk the talk'. I've marched with my black friends in the deep South in the 1960's, when that was not 'done' either. When you've 'been there', come back and we'll 'talk turkey.' (And by the way, my Islamic friends and I have to meet clandestinely, because if their families find out they have a white, female, Christian (i.e. infidel (which translates into 'dog'') friend, they would wind up the same way as that poor, unfortunate young lady -- and that includes the males). Have a nice day.

[PortraitOfSanity]

You're still ridiculously misinformed when it comes to Islam. I love the huge speech, were you trying to convince me, or yourself? Because on the one hand I can see you have a distaste for racism (and I'm not being sarcastic when I congratulate you on that) but on the other, you still keep bringing up these stereotypes of Islam that you could have heard on FOX News or Bill O'Reilly.

By the way, I've been tear gassed, hit with rubber bullets, had my skull broken with a nightstick, arrested 3 times and been shot at. All during protests. Your sarcasm is appreciated. And no, I have never been to the South, and I don't plan on going either. We should have just let them leave in the Civil War, everything that's come out of the South has been shit, we would have solved so many problems if we hadn't had them.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

everything that's come out of the South has been shit

Oh yeah?

Well, fuck you too!

[Jaye Jang]

Once again, I have opened up a can of worms without really trying. However, this was my spin on the vid when I saw it. This was a shameful waste of a viable human life. I work in a hospital. Because I am goth (we have a 'thing' about death, presumably) and I am an ex-Army medic (did 'death detail' -- not pleasant, but part of the job), I was given the 'cheerful' job of typing the death summaries (and, BTW contrary to popular belief, I don't enjoy typing these reports, but someone has to do them). I work in the basement, across from the morgue, under the children's/cancer ward. During my career I have typed thousands of reports. You folks would not know that. Not your business. However, the night before I watched this vid, I was 'blown away.' Not much does that, really; however, the last report I typed that night was a report on a 20-month-old child that was born with cancer. That's a new one even on me. I have typed death summaries on little people who were born with FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) because the moms were alcoholics, and children born with bleeding ulcers because the fathers were 'stress cases' -- but a child being born with cancer was a mind-blower. (The cancer cells were in the yolk sac. Not the parent's fault). The cancer was not discovered until the child was three month's old, and by the time this little person was 22 months old she was riddled with cancer. Life sucks like that sometimes. So, here's a father, religion notwithstanding, who allowed his beautiful, vibrant daughter to be destroyed -- and, here's a family who would have given anything to see their daughter at least be allowed to grow up. I understand that is being emotional and not understanding of this man's culture, but sometimes it's not easy to put your emotions on a back burner. (And no, it's not from TV, hon -- my Islamic friends live in my neighborhood, and yes the neighborhood is very protective of their identity. [If their families found out they had even spoken to us, their lives would be forfeit. What is so sad is that these are vibrant, intelligent young people, also]. I have neighbors that are refugees from Rwanda, Burma, and even migrant work camps where they have been mistreated -- and none of them understand how a parent couild do that to their children, not even on religious principles. These kids are refugees from their own family. That's just sad, but like I said, that's just life. Life sucks, sometimes).

As for convincing you, sweetie, not an issue with me. Been around to long to worry about that, and I sure don't need to convince me (although I probably should stop worring about these Islamic kids -- but how can I? They're good kids. They deserve to live long and prosper).

As for you taking knocks for standing up for your friends/beliefs, as my Aussie friends say, "Good on ya, mate."


(BTW no offense meant and none taken, I hope -- but Mark Twain came from down South -- and so did Edgar Allen Poe).

[PortraitOfSanity]

I guess I got my point a cross then, and if I offended you, I apologize for most of it.

Could you please not use "sweetie" or "hun" though, it's kinda condescending....

[Jaye Jang]

You have MY apologies. Not trying to be condescending. It's a Northwestern 'thing.' (And sorry about the misunderstanding. We have a large international community here, so we 'ignorant' Westerners don't understand when kids have to live in hiding from their parents. It just doesn't 'set' right with us, for some reason).

Now, got to go back to work. Not going to get a break tonight.

[AngelikDemonik]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Once again, it's an extremely small minority. The vast majority of Muslims are non-violent, but the ones you hear about are the ones that blow themselves up. Because that's the message the U.S puts out, to justify invading the Middle East.

I live in a predominately Muslim area, I have Muslim family members (father's side of the family) and I don't know if it's just the people here in Metro-Detroit or what, but I have seen girls (good friends of mine) get the shit knocked out of them for just having a boyfriend by their brothers or fathers. My mother called the police once because the girl that used to live next door to me was shoved down two flights of stairs because her father seen her boyfriend drop her off. My best friend in High School was sent to live in Palestine because her father found out she was talking to boys on the phone. In my High School, girls were called whores if it was well known that they had a boyfriend. Most of them kept it secret, out of fear from what might happen if someone found out and told their fathers. Most of the girls in my high school were engaged to be married to much older men by their first year of college...a man picked out by their families.

I would shame my father and his family if I came home pregnant before I was married. I would shame my father if I moved in with my boyfriend before being married. My father isn't even Muslim...He's Atheist. But, generally speaking, in HIS culture (he's full-blooded Lebanese), it's shameful and wrong. My father would never kill me, but I would be disowned.

No, not all Muslims are like that, in fact, to say it's the Muslim religion, is wrong. It's part of the Arab culture, in general...And maybe everyone in my area is just really fucked up in the head, but I've seen it happen, and it really is a damn shame.

[BLEED REBELION!!!]

The amount of stupid shit people say about Islam and Muslims is just disgusting...
In world history we were talking about 9/11 because it came up. We were also talking about how perspective makes the retelling of the story different from person to person.
And then the teacher uttered a fucking stupid bitch statement: "for instance, the Muslim perspective and reaction of 9/11 is different from ours". or something close to that.
My hand went up as soon as she said it and I said:
Me: " What do you mean the Muslim perspective and reaction?"
Her: "well many muslims were happy about 9/11. they thought it was justified and were joyous."
She seems to think that all muslims like to blow shit up and kill people.
So then I went on to tell her (with a nasty tone) that the Quran (not that I am well read when it comes to the quran) doesnt teach people to do such things. And that extremists and Jihadists are but a small percentage.
She then in a bitch way reworded her statement and said "is that better"....
And then later another student said somthing like "The sunnis and shiites (please excuse any mispellings) hate eachother but that they will join together against us because they all hate us so much...

I wanted to throw up.. How can people be sooo fucking stupid..

I know very little about the middle east. And i realize that no one has ever tried to teach me. Its something I have to learn about on my own I guess. But, I can use my common sense and know that the majority of Muslims are nto hate full evil hating people.
Most of the Muslim people I have met have been good people who tried to practise kindness as a rule.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

The Quran is no more sexist than the Torah or the Bible. Have you ever really read any of those religious texts? They're just a bunch of archaic morals and draconian laws.

That being said, ANYONE of ANY religion who would kill his daughter over having a boyfriend he or she doesn't like is a disgrace against the human race and should never be allowed to see sunlight again.

[Vistillian]

Rligion is the most evil force the world has ever known. Its made up to keep us dumb and under controol. Its so sad that most of the world suffers from this mass delusion.

Oh I am open to the ideah that someone created this human race. But if there is a god. He/She would NOT want us killing eachother in his/her name.

Religion is imperfect because humans are imperfect. get it?

Im so sick of this world not letting go of its ancient ways.

Why is it so damn scary for humans to grasp the concept that we may be alone. and that if there is a god he/she probably doesn't even like us.

Let me paint a clear example PortraitOfSanity was "defending" his beliefs. people kill or even die for there beliefs. religion is the biggest mass belief in existence. can you even begin to conceive how many people in history were killed in the name of religion?

it makes me sick.

and i cant wait to see people "defend" there beliefs by flaming me. lol

bring it on. =p

[Saya]

Intolerance and extremism are everywhere, not just religion. Whatever people can take to the extreme, they will. People will judge based on religion, race, nationality, political beliefs, sexuality, wealth, fashion.....the list goes on.

I get tired of people saying they hate religion, its all bad. In judging and excluding someone just because they are a person of faith, regardless what their personal beliefs are, you become exactly what you say you hate. You just take it to the other extreme. I'd much rather hang out with an open minded Catholic than a closed minded atheist. I can understand having a problem with some beliefs, but to say each and every one of them is wrong and a poison to humanity is to me intolerance and bigotry.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Saya

I'd much rather hang out with an open minded Catholic than a closed minded atheist.

I couldn't agree more, and I'm a devout atheist.

[Vistillian]

THe human race is weak and they need to make themselves feel strong by thinking theres some all powerfull god "loveing" them.

I just hate religion it can be blamed for most of whats wrong in the world.

[Saya]

Religion is more than just believing in a higher force that loves them. At heart, its trying to answer the age old question of why are we here? Where did we come from? Where are we going? We have creation myths because we don't know where we came from. We have apocalypse myths because we don't know where we are going. And we have teachings to apply to our lives, to strengthen our relationship to whatever greater power is out there, and to enrichen one's life. Its not for everyone, not everyone agrees on the specifics, not many agree where we came from and where we are going, but thats because religion is ideally a very personal thing.

Its when people become intolerant that other people think differently is when we get a problem. Its not religion that can be blamed for "most of whats wrong in the world", it is arrogance and bigotry. These two things can do terrible things in the name of religion, like it can do terrible things in the name of racism, creed, politics, ambition, anything it can take advantage of. And jesus, look at atheist countries like China, getting rid of religion didn't make them any better (note: The government of China states that China is officially atheist, has persecuted religious institutions and continues to do so, granted a lot of Chinese people still hold religious beliefs).

And do you hate white people since we caused a lot of misery in the world in the name of race?

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Saya

And do you hate white people since we caused almost all of the misery in the world in the name of race?

Fixed for accuracy.