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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 01-05-2006, 03:14 PM   #51
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Close is enough to get upset about. Take action against? No. Get upset about.

And for the record, this discussion isn't about the rights and wrongs of the Vietnam conflict. It's to do with the affliction and suffering a US citizen purposely caused US servicemen durring a conflict many of them didn't completely agree with. The world was kept intentionally blind by Fonda's subversive acts of propaganda and deception. As as itchy as you are to bring up the "otherside," it's irrelevant. Unless you're saying that if you oppose a conflict, it's A-OK to engage in a campaign of deception and lies that will ultimately lead to the suffering of men and women.

Just a "yes" or "no" on that one. This way, again, we can discern an off-topic rant from hypocritical rhetoric.
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Old 01-05-2006, 03:55 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

Nothing anyone can say changes or JUSTIFIES this: Napalm!


On the subject of Napalm and Children..

I was 7 or 8 Years old when I saw that image for the first time.

I was a bit older before the full impact of it truly hit me.

As an Adult I saw an interview with the young girl in the middle of the picture..

She still bears horrific scars all over her body from the Napalm, the scars she wears on her soul are much deeper.







Notice how in the more popularly reprinted picture the soldiers aren't shown taking pictures of children on fire like the other shots from the same roll did.

I will NEVER understand how someone, even a soldier could look at a child on fire and grab a camera instead of a First Aid kit.

Pathetically, I still hold out Hope for seeing the end of such senseless violence against children by the ENTIRE Global Community in my Lifetime..

Oh, and Hanoi Jane needs it in the Ass!

People have been tried for TREASON for MUCH LESS in this country.

But not Jane..

Her celebrity status acted as a shield from prosecution as the Conspirator she WILLINGLY chose to become.

If she had been Jane Humperdinkle, she would have been hung up by her Treasonous Thumbs and forced to face the consequences of her heinous and unthinking actions.

She will have the Blood of our Soldiers on her Head until the day she dies, regardless..

I don't know how she sleeps at night.

Normally, as a rule I don't give a Fuck what celebrities have to say.

However, when the words and or actions of said 'celebrities' causes the murder and torture of soldiers from ANYWHERE, I guess you could say I have a looooooong memory.

Fuck that Bitch.

.

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Old 01-06-2006, 10:42 AM   #53
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So, Binkie, Fonda used bullshit to oppose Vietnam. Yes, it's condonable.
But the US administration feeding bullshit to its citizens regarding the ongoings and the going ons during the war are Ok?

So, Fonda spews out bullshit to try and stop a war, and the US administration spews out bullshit trying to justify it and say it's all going great. Fonda was full of shit for bunching every GI into the same bag, and the US administration were full of shit saying nothing bad was going on.

You put one on trial for treason, you better put the other on trial for war crimes.
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:59 AM   #54
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I didn't say lying to the American public was, "OK," but you just said that if you oppose something, it's entirely condonable to do so. So if the Bush administration opposes Saddam's regime, by your logic, it's all good if indeed that's what they've done. In effect, you're all for propaganda and lying, even if it costs many lives and causes suffering.

Just so we're clear on what you stand for; you're no different from the administration you so vigorously hate/oppose.
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Old 01-06-2006, 11:09 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binkie
In effect, you're all for propaganda and lying, even if it costs many lives and causes suffering.

You mean the bullshit the current administration fed you regarding the reasons for the war in Iraq, that you so vigorously defended, that Bush recently admitted to be bullshit?

Repeat after me: I was lied to.


Lied to you and your countrymen, lied to your armed forces, lied to your allies and lied to the UN in order to sanction a war. Guess you're all for propaganda and lying to the cost of innocent lives too, if I try and paint you like that. I think I know you better than that to make such an assumption. Thought you knew me better than that too.

Guess not.




.


.
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Old 01-06-2006, 11:18 AM   #56
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Welp, that's grounds for impeachment. When it's determined by Congress that he lied and manipulated intelligence, you can come back and ask me that.
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Old 01-06-2006, 11:22 AM   #57
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Until then, I stand behind the fact that the intelligence Bush was given was based on lies and deception directly from someone by the name of Ahmad Chalabi. Name ring a bell? That'd be where alot of our intelligence came from (on ties to al-Qaeda and a WMD program) which turned out to be wrong.

The guy opposed Saddam and wanted his regime toppled. Manipulation aided in doing just that.
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Old 01-06-2006, 11:52 AM   #58
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So now you're basically telling me Bush went to war based on one person's intel?

Sure.
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Old 01-06-2006, 07:37 PM   #59
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No, Chalabi's entire party sent us defectors that helped in that department. Alot of our intelligence was fueled by the reports these people gave us. Yes. This is world history. Look it up yourself.

The CIA just helped back it up with satellite photography and reports from nations such as the Czech Republic, which did have evidence that al-Qaeda operatives and Iraqi intelligence agents had met within the closed doors of embassies.
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Old 01-06-2006, 08:05 PM   #60
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The most trusted and valuable source of intelligence to this day remains to be human intelligence. We didn't have much coming from Iraq, so we trusted what we did get.
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Old 01-06-2006, 08:25 PM   #61
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Sorry. Too flimsy an arguement. That's my opinion anyway.
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Old 01-07-2006, 12:39 AM   #62
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Well, wait for the Congressional report then, Mael. It will state exactly how the evidence that lead up to the '03 invasion of Iraq was gathered. If you're opinion that he lied is correct, perhaps you'll get lucky and Bush will be impeached. Otherwise, it's a bit early to bring out judgemental language, especially if you're not all too familiar with how the intelligence was gathered.
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"[Brian Blair] was a punk. I can break his fucking back - break his back and make him humble and then fuck his ass ... Suplex him, put him in a camel clutch, break his back, and fuck his ass - make him humble. Teach him to respect the Iron Sheik. And I didn't do it, because for the God and Jesus, and Mr. McMahon." -Khosrow Vaziri (The Iron Sheik)
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:41 PM   #63
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How can someone be a "traitor" in this sense? Just because someone is born or lives somewhere doesn't mean they have an obligation to respect everything about that place.
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Old 02-09-2006, 07:39 AM   #64
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Hahahah - Mael - brilliant point. I like how when one person decieves its being a traitor, but when a administration decvives its people, well thats different.

Talk about doublespeak.
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:47 PM   #65
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robster667, the email you quoted has been proven to be a hoax. Only part of what it says is true, and the people who were quoted in it have denied saying the things the email attributes to them. Check earlier in this post for a link.

I don't get all the pics and comments you've just made. They seem bent on stirring up shit, but really don't make an intelligent point. Do you have something to say? Just say it.

Posting pics to shoot down Binkie? Please. She's got an i.q. that would put you in the basement. Marshal an intelligent arguement, phrase it in decipherable sentences and let it fly. Then be prepared to defend it. It's called a discussion, numbnuts.

BTW, I doubt any Iranian "wench" would be allowed to have a "boy toy". Hello? They don't give women that kind of sexual freedom over there. Hello?
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:07 PM   #66
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"Fear my cyber-wrath!"

Hmm... looks like a troll wants to be baited.

We've been told not to do that here. :P

Bye Bye. Have fun talking to yourself, dipshit.
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Old 02-13-2006, 09:04 PM   #67
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Well, at least now you're trying. And, yes, we like adjectives.


1. So Tehran allows women sex toys? Wonderful. I couldn't be happier to be wrong. I would highly advocate the use of boy toys and would support my Iranian sisters' rights to have one.

The email refered to is the one Posted by OdinicRite
Quote:
A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED
KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA
2. So Rumsfeld sux. So, what? They all do. But the elderly and disabled have been begging for decades. It's wrong, but it's been wrong.

If you nail Rumsfeld and his ilk down for that one, you have to nail all the administrations since the 1700's. Also, you have to nail all the world governments, throughout time. It's easier just to nail human nature. That's where the fault lies.

4-7? Rhetoric. We have discussed impeachment here, in this thread and in other threads. If there's proof, I hope they get impeached.

Those discussions grew out of a give and take of opinions, not some randomly posted pictures.

Posting a bunch of pictures isn't adding to the discussion. Don't just spout hate and rhetoric, fill it with ......unfocused thoghts and wierd urls no one can be bothered to look up because you haven't piqued our interest....... and expect us all to be shocked by pictures and inflammitory statements. Make an intelligent arguement.

And the bit about someone deserving to die? No one deserves to die.

Quote:
Your talking to a Middle-Easterner. Dont play with fire.
More browser trouble?
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:48 PM   #68
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Just because you think you're being witty here by taking a dig at Fox News, robster, while simultaneously posting an article from a knock-off al-Jazeera site, I have an eye-opening mission for you. First of all, you may want to read the "About Us" section on that website you linked to. States clearly that it's in no way related to the famous network based out of Qatar that airs tapes from al-Qaeda. This one is based out of the UK, but fronted as a United Arab Emirates operation. Of course another big clue is the absence of the actual al-Jazeera logo on that site. So whatever credibility you're trying to build up with the site name... well, there is none, quite frankly. It's a small operation that's banking off of the concept of "trade confusion."

In case you're interested: the real al-Jazeera site, in english, can be found at: http://english.aljazeera.net/

But as far as the real al-Jazeera site and Fox News go? Funny thing here; they share the same sources and articles. al-Jazeera lists the source(s) of their articles at the bottom of each. Generally it's by the "Associated Press," "Reuters," or a combination (otherwise written as "Agencies"). Sometimes you'll find some authored by al-Jazeera, themselves. Now, go check out FoxNews.com and take a good look at who writes alot of those international articles. Same exact agencies. I guess that makes al-Jazeera pro-Bush/Republican, now doesn't it? God forbid should Fox's news be considered anything but.

But yes, very "fauxy." Guess you'd better stick with those "neutral" news networks that misreport on major world events, such as the BBC, CNN, CBS, and the like.

As for your hypocracy remark, that'd have to mean or imply that the Reagan administration lied about CW use in Iraq. Kinda hard to do when George Shultz was fessing up to it in '83. Even harder when the State Department clearly condemned the use of CWs by Iraq in '84.

As for the Nigeria comment, that had absolutely no basis or relation to anything I was talking about. You're trying to jump track with an old arguement and place words in my mouth. With that, I extend your own advice; "Good luck. "
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"[Brian Blair] was a punk. I can break his fucking back - break his back and make him humble and then fuck his ass ... Suplex him, put him in a camel clutch, break his back, and fuck his ass - make him humble. Teach him to respect the Iron Sheik. And I didn't do it, because for the God and Jesus, and Mr. McMahon." -Khosrow Vaziri (The Iron Sheik)
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:15 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
1. a.Last time I checked Tehran was one of the cleanest, nicest, and safest cities to live in. Cant say the same about Frisco *rolls eyes*
Checked what? Last international survey conducted by the EIU ranked Tehran as being one of the most unlivable cities in the Middle East, far outranking even the worst US city. At that, pollution is so bad in Tehran at times that the government has had to issue public warnings, telling city residents to stay indoors because carbon monoxide smog has been recorded at dangerously high levels. Tehran happens to be one of the most polluted cities in the world. The city is also a major center for drug trafficers.

Quote:
2. Iran has huge reserves of natural gas and oil, some say the same as or even more than Iraq. Wonder why the U.S. wants to bomb them, and their poor puppy israel is yapping its ear off? Oil and.............you guessed it........Israel again! So if you like having your poorer relatives dying for that, you deserve everything you get.
Exactly. This has absolutely nothing to do with nuclear aims or the fact that Iran hid nuclear facilities from the international community, nor that they bulldozed others before inspectors could assess was was going on there. Yeah, it's all about oil and the Joooooooooos. Which is why China and Russia have now agreed to back a move that would refer Iran to the Security Council.
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"[Brian Blair] was a punk. I can break his fucking back - break his back and make him humble and then fuck his ass ... Suplex him, put him in a camel clutch, break his back, and fuck his ass - make him humble. Teach him to respect the Iron Sheik. And I didn't do it, because for the God and Jesus, and Mr. McMahon." -Khosrow Vaziri (The Iron Sheik)
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:22 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
I like the Guardian...........and The Independent aint half bad...........

Please carry on...........the American knows everything obviously............*rolls eyes*

Ever been to beirut? I have...........my stepdad is from there............
I back up what I say with verifiable facts, not some presumptuous opionion, which seems to be one of your hallmarks for discussing politics.

And good for you. Give yourself a pat on the back, because that immediately makes you an expert on Middle Eastern affairs. I'll assume you've been to Tehran too, since you speak about it so highly from seemingly first-hand experience.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:25 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by robster667
I meant crime-wise in Tehran. So is Frisco. I forgot to mention LA. Your point? Every major capital/international city is.
Again, let me mention that Tehran is a major center for drug trafficking. And again, let me remind you that drug trafficking is illegal, hence a crime, in Iran.

[quote]Yeah so thats why Russia threw out the British spies recently. Umm yeah.........they couldnt be playing realpolitiks, right?QUOTE]
The British agents have what to do with Iran's nuclear program?
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:30 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
What facts? Facts that have been DISPROVEN? Like the cia crap, for instance.
Do you need more examples? Ill dig them up for you. What do you call most of your posts in this thread? HARD FACTS? LOL

I feel an H coming on........................*sigh*
Most of my remarks on this thread had to do with Jane Fonda, a topic you don't seem too interested in.

And apparently you don't seem too clued in about who Ahmed Abdel Hadi Chalabi is and what role he played in the lead up to the Iraqi invasion. Where do you think alot of the ground intelligence came from? Guess the codename "Curveball" means absolutely nothing to you.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:51 PM   #73
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Delete that pictures. It skews the page format so one can't read the whole posts.

Moron.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:58 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667
I brought it up to illustrate how you said Russia and China are referring Iran to the Security
Council. Like what happened to Iraq. Do I need to elaborate? I will. Okay, Ill make it easier for you. British spies, who used a fake rock to spy on Russia, pissed the Ruskies off. Soon after the Ruskies make overtures towards the Iranians, mostly economical. Do you need sources for that? All right. Al jazeera english site wont do right? Then what will............nothing will satisfy you. Its all faux news. *rolls eyes yet again*
So you see, Russya is playing both sides, realPOLITIKS if you will. Whoever gives the best deal. China is going along, because you know to appease the U.S. since their economy is kicking YOUR ass. So I doubt a resolution would go far.............and that
if its passed. You know the U.S. doesnt have a ROCK SOLID reputation at this point in time. As for nukes, look whos talking, Amerikanski.
You can go quote al-Jazeera. The real one, not the knock-off that has zero credibility in the news industry. As I stated before, the real al-Jazeera and Fox News often post the same articles written by the same people. So either one will suffice. Although you still believe that somehow Fox's articles are somehow different and biased. So go with al-Jazeera if you wish.

As for Russia, they've had strong economic ties with Iran for a long time now. Thinking that they're now heavily investing in Iran because a few British embassy workers were found out to be spies? Yeah, it sounds like you're theory there is backed up by nothing more than poor speculation.

China's economy is kicking the ass of the US? You want to go dig up the figures on per capita there, sport? How about GDP estimates. The ONLY thing... ONLY THING, China's economy kicks our asses in, is growth. They still have a long way to go if they want to rival the US economy overall. So your remark is flawed there. You may want to clarify next time, unless you really don't know what you're talking about. In which case, continue being vague as hell.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:00 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robster667

Yes chalabi, a known criminal and money launderer

From wikipedia: ...

So much for your rock solid sources..............*sniffle*
Wow. You would have thought giving you the full name would have sufficed. I guess I have to correctly look up the article as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Chalabi

From that article, since you may have trouble finding this part as well:

Quote:
Before the war, the CIA was largely skeptical of Chalabi and the INC, but information from his group (most famously from a defector codenamed "Curveball") made its way into intelligence dossiers used to help convince the public in America and Britain of the need to go to war. "Curveball" – the brother of a top lieutenant of Chalabi – fed hundreds of pages of bogus "firsthand" descriptions of mobile biological weapons factories on wheels and rails. Secretary of State Colin Powell later used this information in a UN presentation trying to garner support for the war, despite warnings from German intelligence that "Curveball" was fabricating claims. Since then, the CIA has admitted that the defector made up the story, and Colin Powell apologized for using the information in his speech.

The INC often worked with the media, most notably with Judith Miller, concerning her sensational WMD stories for the New York Times. After the war, given the lack of discovery of WMDs, most of the WMD claims of the INC were shown to have been either misleading, exaggerated, or completely made up while INC information about the whereabouts of Saddam Hussein's loyalists and Chalabi's personal enemies were accurate.
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