To The Former Members Of Gothic.net - Page 2

Legacy of Wulf · 06-23-2006, 08:05 AM

I think it's safe to say...

I have no idea what's going on...

spookypurple · 06-23-2006, 08:59 AM

I also have no idea what's going on, and have no intention of sticking my nosy nose in, other than to say that: let whoever needs to sort it out, do just that. And for them to know that whoever needs the support, we can be here to offer it when asked.

*Hugs* to whoever wants them.

Ben Lahnger · 06-23-2006, 10:50 AM

.
I wasn't sure if I'd find another reason to post here, but I feel like I have to reply to some points made here. I've tried most of my life to learn to act with grace and wisdom, especially when emotions run hot. I'm not always successful, but I keep trying. It does make me take longer to react than others at times, and I try to think twice before speaking in those times when anger, aggression, hurt pride and a lust for retribution drive the dialog. I am not saying anything about anyone else's actions here or elsewhere. I am just addressing the points here where my name was mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The OL

The name is Corey, Nicole's (Sanctus) boyfriend. I am posting this once and when I finish I will have no further correspondence with any of you, and I will do all there is in my power to prevent Nicole from it as well. I've seen the demeanor of my girl spiral from the good natured well intentioned soul she is into a betrayed tortured mess, the situation has come to the point where if I didn’t step in, I would think myself an insensitive prick. I would like to start this out rashly, but in interest of maturity (for the moment) I will remain calm and purely factual.

...

From day one of her un-requested but appreciated administrative appointment she was met with a backlash of resentment. Examples:

Ben Langer, who emotionally insulted Nicole over the right to ban members as a moderator, how necessary was that? As I understand it you're almost 40?? Good to know what kind of adolescent offensive behavior I can look forward to when I reach your age.

(The above also suggests to me an underlying jealous animosity over ‘? a web site appointment?’ Do so many of you require validation through favoritism?? I smell the sweet scent of possible motive and back stabbing possibilities… but who am I to suggest such a thing?)

Corey, let me quote the actual dialog for clarity. I've edited three parts of these posts for unrelated reasons. The missing text does not at all impact the content, and the hurtful comment I made is still clear and obvious. Oh, and I'm 47, for the record.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SanctusDei - Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:52 pm

I'd rather just the admins have banning abilities, for one reason:

We have ****** ** **** people moderating here, all with different braking points... if just one happens to go a little gung-ho we could potentially lose quite a few good members, I would rather keep it to the few admins she assigned, all of which converse on almost a weekly basis outside of the forum... we should't ban anyone without a discussion regarding the issue, and would be fairly unbiased in making said decision

But if anyone wants to argue the matter I'm surely open to differing opinions..

Ben Lahnger - Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:21 pm

Well, I certainly understand and agree with that, although I could argue that I probably have demonstrated more patience and tolerance than at least one of the currently selected crop of Admins. That's okay, because I don't want that level of authority or responsibility at this time. I suspect that patrolling the * *** forum will keep me busy enough!

But Sanctus, back to your original point ... doesn't the 3 strike system address this with a satisfying compromise? Especially if the system stipulates that any moderator can only assign one strike to a user.

This would mean that one Admin or three Mods could ban a user ... and a three strike banning would be appealable.

SanctusDei - Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:31 am

Ben...with the patience and tolerance comment, I assume you mean me. Although it was a touch painful, it's an understandable opinion. But at least let me explain my reasons...

My issue isn't really based on the abilities of the mods to make sensible decisions, it about having 'too many hands in the till' so to speak. I'm not comfortable with the idea of having so many people possess the power to disable users, I can see it becoming a serious problem in the future...

But whatever... I'm backing out of this discussion.

EPS - Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

Well, I certainly understand and agree with that, although I could argue that I probably have demonstrated more patience and tolerance than at least one of the currently selected crop of Admins.

I am a bit confused as to why the observation above was warranted?

I don't believe that anyone slighted your ability to be patient or tolerant, please correct me if I am wrong?

Sanctus explained the issue pretty well. We have too many Mods for everyone to have absolute access to the ban list. As she stated, we all have different breaking points. That is why we are trying to implement a " Three Strike Proposal" and a corresponding "Report Thread" so that we all know why someone was warned, and which post was problematic.

...

I want the staff to be more involved, and I want there to be solid systems in place so that we can all communicate about problem members, and take action if need be.

However, what I do want to stay away from is the kind of observations made by you above.

Whether you were talking about Sanctus or not, the end result was her feeling like she should not participate in this discussion anymore. Hurt feelings are not going to help any of us here. Not to mention that type of remark usually isn't your style, and I am still hard pressed to understand what elicited that response in the first place.

If I didn't trust each and every last one of you, you wouldn't be here. But the fact remains that we still need systems in place in order for things to run smoothly.

I hope I have clarified things for you, and everyone else a bit.

Feedback is welcome and appreciated from anyone on this issue.

Thanks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My point in posting all that is two-fold. First, I wanted to clearly point out that the first person to point out how seriously my words hurt Sanctus, and the first person who came to her defense, was EPS. That was consistant with her character in the past, and until the personal attacks against her in this thread, that has been the character she has demonstrated all along. And I don't blame her for her reply to your comments here.

Second, yes, I did say it. I owned up to it at the time and I won't duck that responsibility now. At the time I said it, I was trying to make a point that became meaningless after I realized how much it did hurt Sanctus. As I typed the words to the post, it didn't occur to me that they could be interpreted in a way that would hurt that much. After Sanctus and EPS pointed out how mean-spirited the comment was, I kept rereading it and couldn't figure out how I could be such an idiot. So I apologized in public in the same thread, and in private by way of a PM to Sanctus. I also offered other apologies at the time, because I also realized that other people could have been offended. Yes, I made a mistake, and I expressed to everyone, especially Sanctus, my remorse.

I wish I never made mistakes, especially ones like this where I hurt people I care about. It's just another piece of evidence for why I try to be slow and measured in my words in response to crisis and drama. I thought I had made amends for this foible and had been granted forgiveness from all parties affected. I don't know if your posting this comment here indicates that it is not so, but I figured I'd better acknowledge the truth behind your comment. I just wish you had told the whole story.

(continued ...)

Ben Lahnger · 06-23-2006, 10:51 AM

To continue my reply to this post, where my name was mentioned several times:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The OL

Last, the reaction over the banning of Michelle herself.

Funny, seems to me aside from Angel011, Nicole was the only one TO react.

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showth...page=230&pp=50

Not a word from TheKorovaMilkbar or Ben Langher, but neither of them is implemented? Seems to me both of them are still on the "not banned" list? And yet the first conclusion falls on the only one of the three with an assumed closer bond with Michelle. Wow.
In her defense (and I'm drawing away from fact here) I've known the girl for 8 years, I know how she works. It's how I would work, Michelle has a better stronger endeavor before her, and the loss of this hell should be a weight from her shoulders. Why should Nicole or anyone be expected to express intense upset over Michelle’s improved situation and lightened load? I suppose that comes right down to that whole mind reading trick the both Nicole and I have yet to master. So I apologize for her deficiency in that arena. Yeah.

...

I hope you're fucking ashamed, but egomaniacal behavior doesn't lend well to random bouts of modesty and my hopes for you all fall short.

-Corey.

Well, I've said serveral times through my response here that I try to weigh my words for a while before expressing them. In the instance of the above comment, I never expressed any comments regarding any of the banned members, prior to a certain point, because my focus was on working on the postive things that were happening elsewhere in my life. When Xng was banned, I believe I did express some disbelief, because that removed over 9100 posts and a person that I thought personified Gothic.net more than anyone. Then, EPS's banning troubled me terribly, but her response elsewhere and her indications that she did not want to generate a response here, along with my reluctance to post emotional rants, led me to deliberate over what I should post for days.

When I finally did make a decision, it was consistant with my behavior here previously - to post rational, fact-based criticisms of the management here that would carry the weight of truth, rather than emotion, and therefore be much harder to refute or deny. Since the banned member's posts have largely disappeared, I decided the answer was to post the history of the purges, so that their story could be known to people who came here after. I know you didn't see this, but it's in this thread:

Why was empty_purple_stars banned?

You'll notice other people did speak up in that thread, so you should give credit to that. But I for one never found fault for what Sanctus did or didn't say on this matter. I just wish you would have thought better, and read a little bit around the board, before you generalized about me or the other people you indicated with your criticism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanctusdei

I apologise to Wolfie and Ben for his tag on their character, I don't know what if any part they've had I'm just suspicious, they are the only two I know who've publicly berated me (previous to now obviously) without credible reason.

Thank you for this bit of grace. For what it's worth, I had committed myself to endeavoring somewhere else and was finding less and less reason to post here. So I was ready for the emotional divorce from this place when this fiasco hit the fan. I am not going to comment on any of the accusations or evidence that have been brought to bear in this holy war. I do so very much wish that the communications between two people who liked and trusted each other previously could have worked better in this situation. I'll not say what I think could have been done better, as I promised myself I would do no finger pointing in this post. I'm just shaking my head and thinking the whole damn thing stinks.

I am committed to myself to this new endeavor, and don't know if I'll find reason to post here again. But I do know that I leave behind many disappointments ... What could this place have been if the garden had just been tended a little better? ... What will people do with thoughts of what should be happy memories that are now tainted by the recent words of anger and vengence? ... Is there any way that the scars that have resuted from this conflict can be healed? I just don't know.
.

angel011 · 06-23-2006, 01:08 PM

I agree with spookypurple. *Hugs* to whoever wants or needs them. To all of you I wish only the best.

Binkie · 06-23-2006, 02:35 PM

Oh, brovo, Korova, brovo...

Thing you don't seem to understand is that several folks just don't give a shit what he said to you. He came here, to a public forum, issued a statement that was slanderous not only to people who attacked his girlfriend, but everyone who frequents this forum. He trolled this place and, like a little chicken shit puppy that pees on the floor and runs away in the face of confrontation, he did exactly that to avoid taking responsibility for his bullshit remarks.

And while you seem to be thinking that his apology to you, or understanding, or whatever it is you're trying to describe makes it ALL better, others aren't satisfied. Who the fuck are you anyways? Are you the person he came here and called a "cunt" several times? Because he conveyed to you that he "understands," it makes it all better that he just came here and took a giant shit on our boards? If that's your logic, so be it.

If you want to tell people to back off of Sanctus, that's great. It's justified on the premise that she may be innocent. But the chicken shit boyfriend needs to either come here and use the same brass balls that he used to post that bullshit at the top and tell everyone here what he told you. There's no absolutely no shred of doubt that he obviously fucked up here. So quit whitewashing it in the same manner, eh?

On a last note, you don't have any room to call people fools when you're sitting here describing yourself with the word, "neutral." You're anything but, especially with this OL character. Since halfway through this thread you've been acting as his PR department, trying to clean up the mess he made here. If he's really gone and doesn't visit this anymore, who gives a fuck if anyone continues to respond to him? Obviously you have some kind of attachment to him if you're telling everyone to back off in the same way that others have attachment to EPS by telling his dumbass to back off. So yeah, don't pretend to sit here and play "I'm the righteous and impartial guy." You're as neutral as Hugo Chavez.

Loy · 06-23-2006, 04:13 PM

Binkie-can I just tell you how much you rock? \m/

PS-My article idea? Yeah or nay?

TheKorovaMilkbar · 06-23-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Binkie

Who the fuck are you anyways?

You know, I'm only going to post to say one thing... The same as you have stated could be said of you.

Who the fuck are YOU? And what, in God's name, do you have to do with ANY of this? I'm not sure if EPS or Sanctus even know your fucking NAME, to say the LEAST.

I could have swore I said I was done. I'm through defending everyone, save for myself. I said I'm done, so please PLEASE drop me out of it. Attack him all you want, you know he'll never read it, but so be it. Do it anyways, if it makes you feel better.

Drop me out of this conversation. I could have swore I said in my above post that I over-involved myself in something that ultimately doesn't concern me. Why don't you uninvolve yourself now too?

edible_eye · 06-23-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar

Who the fuck are YOU? And what, in God's name, do you have to do with ANY of this? I'm not sure if EPS or Sanctus even know your fucking NAME, to say the LEAST.

Yeah, I browse the forum still, mostly because there are still some good people here whose words I enjoy reading, namely Binkie as well as others...

Korova, Binks has been around here longer than you or I. She used to Mod. Her and E_P_S are tight, dare I say very tight.

Advice - this isn't a good fight to pick. If you're gonna back out, just back out and let it go. You've got your contacts. Put your efforts into dealing with them. Seems there are a lot of chafed nerves riding the world wide web lately and they all need to resolve themselves in the best way they see fit. I don't believe there will be any single person with the ability to relax the crowd.

Teeth are gnashing and tempers are flaring and sometimes, if you really want to let things settle, you have to sit back, shut your mouth and let a few punches fly. Sometimes, respect is built or rebuilt in such ways.

You've said your piece. You've requested to be dropped. Others have the right to say their piece as well, if they have a piece to say. Neither you nor anyone else can control that.

There has been a major upheaval in the community many of us used to enjoy here. To attempt to squash the voice of anyone with something to say in regard to that is inappropriate, in my opinion.

TheKorovaMilkbar · 06-23-2006, 08:02 PM

Ai. Fine.

I just felt that I should not have been forced to be dragged back into it. I told her I was wrong, but that was simply not good enough. She is now beating MY skull in as I try to leave.

But like you said, I should and will just leave this be.

I'm sorry Binkie, and E_E. Just my short temper as of late that has been taking command of me. I'm done. Say what you will, everyone.

Sanctusdei · 06-25-2006, 02:38 AM

I wasn't intending on ever posting in here again but I'd feel like a sincere ass if I didn't stand a little tall for Krovy. I appreciate your defense Korova, you know it... but I also understand Binkie's point. The entire post was uncalled for, but everything he said was understandable from his limited point of view. He's aware of the attacks and slander, and knowing the accusations are entirely untrue of my character I wouldn't blame him for his anger. Thing is, everyone I thought cared about me has (and most likely still does) entitled me far worse then "cunt", labeled me with misdeeds I had no part in, put together a string of coincidences to manifest a destiny which painted me a snake... I wonder how, had you been in my shoes, you and your love ones would react to the situation?

I'd expect the same as you did for EPS... eye for an eye type shit, eh?
You all know EPS and rushed to her side as she felt betrayed, he rushed to mine as I felt betrayed. If you blame him, welcome to hypocrisy.

But anyway, Krovy.. I know you've backed down and all but as I've stated personally, don't bother defending me nor OL.. the truth will surface one way or another and the lie isn't worth you hanging yourself because these people are ruthless and I won't be responsible for your expulsion from something you hold as dear as I did.

Loy · 06-26-2006, 03:10 AM

Sanctus-I have redfused to post or anything (except talk to *a cedrtain peson* on the phone) about his situation becuas I figured it was between you and *a certain person*. However, your man came on here and acted the bitch. This pisses me off no end. Him coming here and slandering (yea, I do know what I said. Guess what? I'm a magazine editor. I have lawyers. They see it the same way as I do. Keep that in mind.) EPS's good name and reputation is outside of yourself, and doesn't speak very well about your character.

See, here's the way I see it=something came up, you were asked to explain your actions, you didn't do so in the timeframe given, and this caused problems. Your bitch steps in and spews all his prejudice and spite, thus causing more problems....and now you're trying to get us to give him a free pass?

Look, the boy might be a good lay, and he might be great in a relationship with, but he fucked up. Te fact that you're now covering up for his ass...well, I just lost a lot of respect for you. Not because I think you're a dupe, but because you're letting this fucktard who doesn't know the situation take charge of it, just because he's your man.

Sorry, but the only honorable thing for him to do is to apologize. And if he doesn't have the balls to do it...fuck him. There are plenty of worthwhile guys in the world. This one ain't worth your time.

And if he wants to whine about what I just said (he can contact me personally. I have no qualms meeting him face to face, just so I can see how he reacts to me calling him a whiny bitch to his face)

Sanctusdei · 06-26-2006, 05:17 AM

Have you read my post Loy?? What the fuck is wrong with you?? I never condoned or spoke for what he did. And honestly you all treated me with the same disrespect and slander as he did EPS. Why should he apologise for doing the same fucking shit you all did to me. The only people you all are hurting here is both EPS and I and I'm fucking sick of it LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE!!! You've attacked me and my boyfriend (who was only defending your crappy reasonless treatment of me) once too many times... I didn't do a god damn thing, I don't know nor have talked to the fuckin admins... I never hurt EPS... He was entitled to his fucking opinion just like eveyone else here... I never responded to any of you in fucking anger and yet youR STILL FUCKING TREATING ME LIKE FUCKING SHIT!!!! I repeat I DIDN'T DO ANY OF WHAT YOU'VE ALL CLAIMED... If* the boy wants to apologize it's up to him... but considering the circumstances.. the fact that he watched me practically cry myself to sleep over the loss of EPS, which is a misdeed that YOU caused is reason enough for me to not be angry over his actions. If you want him to apologise then you fucking apologise first.. you dragged me through the mud LONG before he ever posted... and until now I've rolled with the fuckin punches trying to let it solve itself... but you won't fucking shut up about it and let EPS decide on her own, if anyone is a bitch here it's you... you just can't give it up!! OH and speaking of time limits how the mother fuck do you expect me to meet a time limit when I fucking worked the entire day my "time limit" was set... went to fuckin' bed... got up the next morning the immediately was slapped with a million attacks... GREAT FUCKING CHANCE TO DEFEND MYSELF. Loy... don't ever speak to me again your treatment of me makes me sick, had I done anything I wouldn't care but as it stands I'm not even conciously capable of doing that.....all you want to do is hurt me and it speaks more about your character then anything I've done to calm the situation.

Sanctusdei · 06-26-2006, 05:44 AM

Oh and BTW Loy, I wasn't even here when he posted it... got angry when he did... he apologised to me and intends to apologise to EPS but stands firm on his opinion of almost everyone else, and don't you dare use your respect of me as a wieght over my head, if you believe any of this bullshit then you never had any for me to began with...Don't fucking speak to me about prejudice and spite his one word insult would NEVER compare with the slew of bullshit that flew my way. I didn't let ANYONE take charge of shit, he took his own charge... All of EPS's friends stepped in and tore me to peices, and I didn't even do anything... Then one person who knows what kind of person I'm not steps in for me and makes one comment toward the one person who could have ended the slander long enough to discover the truth, then all hell brakes loose. Nice to know I never had friends here... save a few, almost every last one of you has lied to me... because apparently there was never a relationship to want to save amongst you.

Let me lay it down for you simply.

I was given a 24 hour window to defend an offence I never commited, I had to work/sleep the first 18-20 hours of that time limit and found out about it far too late. When I explained myself (which I shouldn't of had to do) I was attacked... repeatedly...and with severe maliace. I tried to keep my head, responded on level terms... no matter how mean and immature the responses got I alone remained calm. I was hurt at that point that EPS never stepped in... atleast quelled the public attack... now I stand here, friendships ruined and my name torn to shreads... all over nothing.

I have a right to be hurt... to be angry.. to hate. He has a right to feel the same this situation has directly affected him through our relationship, your forgetting that behind every word I write is a REAL FUCKING PERSON... an every last person who posted here has caused me far more pain then one word could ever cause EPS. But this dosen't mean I condone it... and the boi is sorry for it. But at this point nothing that comes of this is any of your business... you caused a shit storm long before he tried to defend me in it... now it's up to EPS and I to fix it. Thanks for all your 'help' btw.