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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 05-07-2008, 09:51 AM   #1
Edward Strange
 
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Cannabis reclassified to class B in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7386889.stm

Wasn't entirely sure where to put this in news or politics, but I felt if I put it in news it might seem like I was suggesting something about the subculture's 'recreational' activities..

So yes, there we go. Cannabis is now class B, as opposed to class C. It is now in the same league as things like Amphetamines, instead of carrying a two year prison sentence, if you are unlucky enough you can find yourself behind bars for five years instead.
But you still get fourteen years for dealing, so it isn't all bad.

In the past, the police were allowed to exercise their discretion and alot of the time an informal caution would be given to someone and that would be the end of it, however, it is fair to say that those times are gone as the government now considers cannabis to be a much more 'serious' drug.

If it'll actually do anything, I can't help but feel that it won't. The experts have said that reclassifying it to class B is a bad idea and, much as I hate to admit it, I think they might have a point.

Don't get me wrong, I have no love lost for drugs, I hate them (the illegal ones anyway, smoke and drink coffee all you want, at least they're government sanctioned) and in a strange way I'm happy that it will be dealt with more harshly in the future because of various things that have happened to me and to friends in relation with the drug. So I'm happy in a sadistic kind of a way that it's going to be dealt with more severely.
But we should hate the sin and not the sinner. Which is not what this reclassification will do.

I recall reading about how in past, when you could still be hanged for theft, the attitude was if you were going to get hanged anyway, you might as well steal a sheep instead of a lamb. And I think that some measure of that will transfer onto this.
Perhaps people will feel that if they will be severely penalized for using cannabis, why not start taking something 'harder', if the penalties are going to be much the same.

But I'm hardly a drug expert so I think I shall end this ramble here. I shall conclude with, I am happy in my 'evil' way that it has been reclassified, but in terms of the 'greater good' I don't feel this was the right thing to do and it should have stayed a class C.

Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps if you don't live in the UK all this will go over your head a little, but feel free to critic your own nations drug policy.
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:04 AM   #2
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This is still subject to approval.

What pisses me off is that Psilocybin Mushrooms is lumped with Heroin and they are not the same thing. Not even close. What the fuck. The policy on drugs in the UK is an epic fail.

Whilst alcohol is perfectly legal and causes far more damage then Pot ever could. This can be proven by going out on weekends and watching all the drunks pissing in the streets, starting fights and initiating other acts of vandalism.
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:29 AM   #3
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This pisses me off no end. Personally, I think most drugs should be legalized - I am fucking sick of governments lying to people about them.
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:54 AM   #4
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In Ireland, cannabis and mushrooms are overlooked. They are technically still illegal, but the cops don't bother with them. In fact, until last year they had shops throughout Ireland that sold mushrooms over the counter.

Plus, there is the Amsterdam factor. If you want to have a smoke, thats the place to be. The fact they have one of the lowest crime rates in Europe and such a high standard of living shows that the drug laws are skewed and obviously there is another agenda at hand.

Thanks to Ryanair, I can fly to Amsterdam and back for 30 Euro, stay in a hostel for about 14 a night, and smoke up all weekend for another 15.

Let the UK raise the penalties again. It just screws their economy more, which is why it was lowered in the first place.

As I have said a few times in a few threads, the only reason certain drugs are illegal is because they are not produced by the drug companies who have huge contracts with the various governments and pay for lots of lobbying and other efforts to sway politicians. This is true in America, the UK, and other countries.

The main reason the UK dropped the classification was they were filling their prisons to the max with simple pot smokers. In America, building prisons is a business, run by Halliburton and a few other oil/defence contracting companies might I add. In the UK, they can't build more prisons because unlike America they don't have ample room in the desert to build huge prisons. In fact, the cost of land is at such a premium building prisons costs the government more than they can make (unlike America who turns a profit off each and every prison these days).

If the UK fills the prison system with non-violent offenders whose only crime is smoking a spliff, they don't have room for real offenders, and since they can't build more prisons without more money, they are forced to let them go.

I'm not too worried about it meself, I don't see them being able to pull that off.
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:58 AM   #5
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I actual spoke to a policemen and a local politician about this subject and they used all the same lines everyone does saying it is antisocial and brings out the worst in people which is the most utter crap i have ever heard, have you ever seen anyone stoned and go out and attack someone i know i have not weed should not be class B i am not saying it should be total legal but i am saying is what the government should actual look in to people who do smoke weed and so on and see for them selfs when people are like who are stoned and not just the preconceptions everyone has about the drug.
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdriven
I actual spoke to a policemen and a local politician about this subject and they used all the same lines everyone does saying it is antisocial and brings out the worst in people which is the most utter crap i have ever heard, have you ever seen anyone stoned and go out and attack someone i know i have not weed should not be class B i am not saying it should be total legal but i am saying is what the government should actual look in to people who do smoke weed and so on and see for them selfs when people are like who are stoned and not just the preconceptions everyone has about the drug.
And I say you should learn what the fuck punctuation is.
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:17 PM   #7
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Yeah, it's a dumb idea that flies in the face of science so that Gordon Brown can make people think he's tough on drugs. Lame.
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:55 AM   #8
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Again, this is only one politician saying what they want to see happen. There has been no actual action nor has there been any legislation to forward this idea. So as of right now, its just a lot of hot air.

That may change but this seems to be a bunch of shite being put out there like politicians do to make people think they are doing something.

Has everyone forgotten about the prison overcrowding? As I mentioned in my previous post its a HUGE issue in the UK. In fact last year the gave thousands of inmates unscheduled early release (cutting some of their sentences in half) because they couldn't cope with the influx of prisoners into the jails and prisons. Most of those they released were non-violent drug offenders mixed with other non-violent offenders. If they ramp that back up they will be back where they started - with more prisoners than the system can handle and no way to fix the problem.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:13 AM   #9
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Capt. could you give me a source as to where you got the fact that U.S. prisons turn a profit? It was my understanding that they do quite the opposite so I would be very interested in seeing the info.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:57 AM   #10
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William F. Buckley, a conservative commentator and general genius, once said the smartest thing the United States could do would be to legalize, then regulate, the drug trade. It seems like a radical idea. But when you consider the implications of the success of the Netherland's plan to open Amsterdam to such an agenda, there's little one can to do argue with success.

As for marijuana - the debate that has raged in the United States for years stems from fear. Little substance exists in fear, where False Evidence Appears Real. In my opinion, marijuana should not be illegal at all. It should be sold in licensed stores, taxed and regulated for potency and quality. This would have several impacts.

The first is there would be a consistency to the product. Tokers would know what they're getting, and the price and quality would be consistent.

Second, illegal smuggling would likely come to a halt after a period of time, although whether it would happen immediately only some experts may know. Either way, drug interdiction efforts could be diverted to real threats, like cocaine and heroin.

Third, the tax revenue generated by marijuana would likely be substantial, enough to subsidize states' and cities' drug treatment programs.

Other benefits? I'm not sure, but there certainly are not likely to be that many deficits resulting from legalizing marijuana. America's own experimentation with Prohibition should have taught us something, but with blinkers on - the horse only gallops the track he can see. In our society - that makes us more like the ass - stubborn and idiotic, which diminishes our strength.
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Old 06-01-2008, 04:40 AM   #11
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I've thought that the government should legalize and regulate drugs for a long time, it's only a radical idea to people who take in all the bullshit about drugs since they seem to be the new Public Enemy #1.
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Old 06-05-2008, 04:14 AM   #12
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Soli -

http://www.google.com/search?q=us+prisons+turn+profit

There are many. many articles on this, government stats, and even a few films. There is also a website called prisonplanet.com that has many good articles.

If you remember a show from the late 90's early 2000 called 'Oz' it was a show about prisons and they went into great detail about the profit margins and stuff behind the scenes (as well as other great topics and lots of violence).

Out sourcing prisons to companies is nothing new. In America, each state and the federal government does it with EVERYTHING. It's like this:

A company approaches the government and asks how much they spend on some service. It doesn't matter the service, it could be building roads, it could be delivering packages, or in this case supplying prisons with food or other services. The government calculates how much it spends on the service and posts the information in the proper areas. Companies then offer to take over the service for a flat fee which is less than the state pays now.

The companies then have to cut corners as well as cut staff, etc. to get their profits from whatever service they are supplying. This means the state saves money, the company turns a profit, and in many cases the company pays money back to the state based on other profit generating services they implement.

For example, all prisons in a state use one phone carrier. That carrier varies from state to state. They charge exhorbant amounts for phone calls, which adds up to millions a year in profits. The state gets a share of that revenue.

Thats just one example. I could go on and on, but check out some of those links.

Ishan -

Most people don't know it WAS legal up until prohibition. When prohibition was repealed, they only repealed it for alcohol. Why? Because the companies involved in other industries didn't want marijuana on the market. It has many uses and up until prohibition was in direct competition with other markets including oil and textiles.

There have been a few documentary movies on this. Weed (with Woody Harrilson), Super High Me, and Totally Baked talk about this fact and others.

Most people don't know that it was REQUIRED by law in the 1700's in America to grow weed because hemp was the main textile. Until it was banned, it was the #1 competitor to cotton in America.

Also, until prohibition, hemp oil was used to fuel lamps across America. It was used more than ANY other type of oil, and electricity wasn't yet readily available.

The oil and textile industries alongside the pharmaceutical companies all had ties in congress which allowed them to keep it illegal after they decided to make alcohol legal again.

Ironic that even today almost a century later the same companies are pulling the same crap for the same reasons.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:07 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by CptSternn
In Ireland, cannabis and mushrooms are overlooked. They are technically still illegal, but the cops don't bother with them. In fact, until last year they had shops throughout Ireland that sold mushrooms over the counter.
You really live in a totally different Ireland to me. The 'cops' certainly don't ignore the weed and shroom situation here at all. Only recently a mate of mine had them snooping 'round his gaff when some bastard tried to pull a fast one on him. Luckily they couldn't find anything. He lives quite near to you.

The shops sold the shooms in the UK too by the way, our government were just waiting for a reason of their own to ban the sale of them rather than doing it just because the UK did. Thanks to some random Guinness soaked wanker they are now illegal.

Also shrooms stopped being sold in shops here in early 2006, not last year.

As for the reclassification. I hope they try it and see how the usage rates skyrocket.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:08 AM   #14
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I remember OZ very, very well. HBO did a great job with that - and I'm not shamelessly plugging them; it was just a real program. For those who enjoy Chris Rock - he said it best: The government wants you to take THEIR drugs ... not your own.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:21 AM   #15
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OZ was bloody scary!
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:08 AM   #16
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Oz is one of the best shows ever! And it wasn't only in the U.S that hemp production was mandatory. Norway also had similar demands for quite a long period of time, along with a law requiering you to brew ale.
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Old 07-25-2008, 05:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mir
This is still subject to approval.

What pisses me off is that Psilocybin Mushrooms is lumped with Heroin and they are not the same thing. Not even close. What the fuck. The policy on drugs in the UK is an epic fail.

Whilst alcohol is perfectly legal and causes far more damage then Pot ever could. This can be proven by going out on weekends and watching all the drunks pissing in the streets, starting fights and initiating other acts of vandalism.
baning alcohol is seen as a bad idea because prohibition was so bad.
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