At least 19 dead in Iran after today's protest

[Saya]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...ion/index.html

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Thousands of defiant protesters clashed with police in the streets of Tehran on Saturday in protest of last week's presidential elections, and opposition leader Mir Hossein Moussavi reportedly said he was ready for "martyrdom."

The unrest left 19 people dead, hospital sources said. Unconfirmed reports put the death toll as high as 150 on the seventh day of post-election demontrations.

Police were using tear gas, clubs and water cannon as they tried to disperse the demonstrators.

A stream of videos posted on social networking Web sites appeared to show demonstrators who had been shot.

One video showed a woman trying to protect a man being beaten and kicked by protesters. A motorcycle lies on its side nearby, and another is in flames.

The protests were held in open defiance of warnings issued Friday by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and the Islamic Republic Security Council. They had said protest organizers -- specifically Moussavi -- would be held accountable if the protests led to bloodshed.

The message on Moussavi's page on Facebook urged Moussavi's supporters to "protest" and "not go to work." The social networking Web site has proved to be a key source of information in a country whose government has banned international journalists from newsgathering.

The authenticity of the information could not immediately be established, but its posting coincided with growing unrest by demonstrators, who say President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's election victory was rigged.

Witnesses in Tehran told CNN one crowd was chanting "Death to Khamenei!" and "I will kill whoever killed my brother!" -- a chant that dates to Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution that brought Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini to power.

In a story posted Saturday on the Web site of the government-run Press TV, Iran's deputy police commander said 400 police personnel had been wounded since the opposition rallies began last weekend.

"Families of those killed or injured in the events since June 12 have filed 2,000 complaints so far," acting Police Chief Brigadier General Ahmad-Reza Radan told Iran's Fars news agency.

Radan said 10,000 complaints had been filed by people asserting that their daily lives had been disrupted, adding, "They have called on the police to deal with rallies firmly."

"The recent rallies destroyed 700 buildings, burst 300 banks into flame, damaged 300 cars and 300 public properties," Radan said.

Meanwhile, the head of Tehran's Emergency Center, Reza Dehqanpour, said more than 50 ambulances had been reserved to help the wounded.

Demonstrators gathered in major cities in France, the United States and Germany to condemn Iran's crackdown on pro-democracy protesters in Tehran.

In Washington, President Obama urged the Iranian government to stop the violence against its own citizens.

"The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching," Obama said in a written statement. "We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people."

Obama received intelligence briefings throughout the day and discussed the situation with senior advisers, an administration official told CNN.

On Saturday night, the Iranian state-run news agency IRINN said an attacker had been killed earlier in the day outside Tehran at the entrance to the Khomeini's mausoleum. The agency said the man "carrying the bomb" was killed, and there were no other casualties.

Press TV had said earlier that three people, including the bomber, died at the shrine to Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution that swept the shah of Iran from power in 1979. Khomeini is regarded as the founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

In a related development, a witness reported a fire near the French Embassy, apparently caused by debris that had been set ablaze nearby. The location is near the intersection of Vali Asr Avenue and Noufle Chateau, named for where Khomeini lived when he was in exile in Paris, France.

With international journalists restricted from covering events in the capital, Iranians were using cell phones and social networking sites to get news out. CNN was told that many protesters removed the SIM card, or memory chip, from their cell phones to prevent the government from tracing their calls.

Witnesses reported that cell phone service was cut off in the area after 5:30 p.m.

Saturday's protests began later than had been predicted. Rallies that were to have begun about 4 p.m. (7:30 a.m. ET) did not materialize.

Many who said they planned to attend the rallies wrote early Saturday to one another on the social networking site Twitter. Some wondered whether there would be violence at the protests.

"Let the Qu'ran shield you. It's a mortal sin to kill anyone holding the Qu'ran. BRING your Qu'ran to protest!!!" one person wrote on Twitter.

"We will try 2 keep this rally peaceful/silent as usual at every cost. Cant give them excuse 2 use force. Hope they wont," another said.

CNN is not publishing the posters' names for safety reasons. Both said they were in Iran, but CNN could not verify that.

Reliable information was hard to come by.

The Ministry of Culture on Saturday banned international media from reporting on the demonstrations unless they receive permission from Iranian authorities. A freelance journalist said it was "very dangerous" to take pictures.

Meanwhile, the Iranian government said Saturday it is ready to randomly recount up to 10 percent of "ballot boxes." The government agency that oversees elections, the Guardian Council, said it had received more than 600 complaints of irregularities from the three candidates.

[Despanan]

Man, it's looking like the Iranians have been pushed too far.

Think this might be the beginning of an all-out republican revolution?

[Saya]

Hard to say, looks like it can go that way. They agreed to a recount but it probably won't do much as they think millions of votes could have just gotten thrown away, not counted wrong. I was really excited for this since it looked like Moussavi would win (if you weren't following it, Moussavi's campaign promised doing away with the morality police, pushing for women's rights and being more friendly with the West). The on going violence is scary and its not impossible that there will be a revolution, but I'm hoping Ali Khamenei will try to appease the Iranians before that happens and declare Moussavi the winner.

I also found this article which also emphasizes the women in this protest:

http://jezebel.com/5292899/in-iran-p...es-the-protest

The various images coming out of Iran this past week (and appearing on this website) have elicited interesting responses...many focusing on how the women featured are both young and attractive. Perhaps some don't realize that's part of the point?

For one thing — as I wrote last week — women were expected to play a major role in this election, potentially deciding the candidate. And like many reform movements throughout the world, candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi's supporters including strong representation among university students, of which sixty percent are women. As with another, long-ago mass protest in Tiananmen Square, those students have poured out of the universities en masse to protest for the democracy they thought they had. In the case of Iran, they were likely driven by mass arrests on campuses throughout the country.

So, suffice it to say that many of the protesters are young. Women — especially young women — are participating in large numbers because the Ahmadenijad regime has been particularly hard on them. Since he took office, the Iranian government has been cracking down on women's rights and — in particular — women's dress. According to Der Spiegel:

When Ahmadinejad was elected president four years ago, the controls by the moral police got noticeably tighter. Vibrantly colored fingernails, French manicures, false acrylic nails — there was a catalogue of fines for the various looks. "
So, when you see this woman with red fingernails, she's not just risking arrest for holding that sign, she's risking it for the shade of her nail polish.

Women have been routinely imprisoned for violations of Iran's strict dress code, which includes a head scarf and can be randomly interpreted to mean that their hair has to be fully covered.

Women have to watch carefully what they wear: a headdscarf and loose-fitting garments that reach at least half-way down their upper thighs are mandatory. Farzan, who specializes in oriental depilation with hot wax, has been arrested twice: the long coat over her trousers was too tight.
"Spending two nights in a hall with 50 or 60 girls, that's enough," she says and presents her new coat which reaches well below her knees. "I had to sign twice that I will dress decently in future. If they catch me again I'll have to pay a $200 fine. After that I may even be whipped, I don't want to risk that." It's possible to buy oneself out of physical punishment, but it's difficult, says Farzan

Women whose veils are deemed insufficiently modest or tunics deemed insufficiently long can be jailed, fined and beaten for daring to defy the dress code.

During the election, the hijab requirement was a political issue — while Moussavi didn't, apparently, advocate lifting the ban, his wife, Zahra Rahnavard told reporters:

The Koran rules that women and men should cover themselves, she replied. "However, one does not have to impose the headscarf rule as brutally as now," she added.
The bloggers at threadbared note that requirement to remain uncovered spurred women (like Rahnavard, who was part of the Revolution) to cover themselves up in protest; either way, the requirement that women conform their dress to the whims of the state is an imposition on the free will of women.

In addition to imposing sartorial requirements and cracking down on university students, Ahmadenijad's regime attempted to pass a series of laws that would have made it easier for men to become polygamists and taxed womens' dowries, angering many. He proposed a new form of marriage called "semi-independent marriage" that would have sanctioned sexual relations between married couples but allowed them to each live with their parents, as a way to get around current standards that require married couples to live together in their own place — a proposition Ahmadenijad's failed economic plans have made more difficult. Women were horrified at the thought that they might be pressed to accept a form of marriage that offered them even less legal protections and could leave them shamed in a divorce.

As you peruse the images coming out of Iran from all over, remember this: when you see a woman with a tunic above her knees, red fingernails, an extremely loose headscarf and a protest sign, try to look beyond the "pretty". Those things are also a symbol of what an Ahmadenijad regime would deny (and, in some cases, has denied) her the right to be.

[Despanan]

Well thanks for bringing that to my attention Saya. Personally, while I'm worried about what's going to happen the the protestors, I gotta say I'm holding out for a (relatively) bloodless change in Iranian policy. This could be the beginning of a major turning point for Iran, and thus the middle east as a whole.

I've also gotta say that's it's friggin' SAD that the rest of the site is ignoring this. I mean what the hell? The petty actions of a highschool principal are really more important for gnetters to talk about than what is possibly the turning point against one of the most oppressive governments in the world?

What gives? Underwear said she'd care when the Iranians started killing each other, well here they are Ophie, where are you? Too busy writing a poem about the last time you went muff-diving?

[zerademark]

Well, it seems that the Iranians are fed up being injusted so many times. Keep supressing people by corrupting the Koran has led up to this. I really wish that this will end in the favor of the Iranian people without hundreds of fatalities.

I've also gotta say that's it's friggin' SAD that the rest of the site is ignoring this. I mean what the hell? The petty actions of a highschool principal are really more important for gnetters to talk about than what is possibly the turning point against one of the most oppressive governments in the world?

Common.Human.Nature.
Enough said.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Despanan

I've also gotta say that's it's friggin' SAD that the rest of the site is ignoring this. I mean what the hell? The petty actions of a highschool principal are really more important for gnetters to talk about than what is possibly the turning point against one of the most oppressive governments in the world?

It's pretty big news, I already heard about it. Plus while the thread doesn't have many replies, it has a fair amount of views for a thread started yesterday. Some people here must be interested.

[HavelockV]

Originally Posted by Despanan

I've also gotta say that's it's friggin' SAD that the rest of the site is ignoring this. I mean what the hell? The petty actions of a highschool principal are really more important for gnetters to talk about than what is possibly the turning point against one of the most oppressive governments in the world?

For my part, I am hardly ignorant of these events, and I do hope that the tide shall soon turn in favor of the reformist candidate and put an end to the bloodshed and oppression.

A 27 year-old female Iranian philosophy student allegedly named Neda (Farsi for 'the voice') Agha Soltan was fatally shot while attending a rally this weekend. Her death, widely broadcast in graphic detail through photos and video across the internet, has apparently become something of a symbolic martyrdom and sparked a torrent of support and outrage against the Iranian government. It should be noted though that at this point it seems unclear as to who fired the gun.

More information to be found:
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...906049,00.html
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/21/neda-identified/

Let us hope that her life, the lives of those others, and, God forbid, the lives that may yet be lost in this turbulent time, were not sacrificed in vain.

[Despanan]

Did anyone see those people the Iranian government threw into Jail on the Daily Show today? It seems like they're just grabbing anyone they think might be remotely associated with the protests and throwing them in jail.

What do you guys think about the US/western world declaring support for the protesters? On one hand, the Iranian government needs to know that the world is watching, and on the other hand, it might make things even worse for the protesters.

[SiouxsiePernova]

It may make no difference whatsoever, but it could reinforce the belief that the Western world is morally corrupt.

[KontanKarite]

I think it's fascinating and I can only echo Desp's concerns with it being as bloodless as possible.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I'm actually surprised with how the Iranian police is handling the protesters. I imagined they would be way more brutal. We have to thank wide media coverage for this; it's the best shield any movement can have.

[KontanKarite]

You have a point there, Jillian. Good call.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I'm actually surprised with how the Iranian police is handling the protesters. I imagined they would be way more brutal. We have to thank wide media coverage for this; it's the best shield any movement can have.

Yeah, Kudos dude.

[Saya]

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...s-silence.html

The American attention span for foreign crises is notoriously short. In the two weeks since Iran’s disputed election and the ensuing protests and violence, Michael Jackson died, Sarah Palin resigned, and news from Iran slipped below the fold and into the inside pages of most daily newspapers.

In this case, however, American editors and readers are not solely to blame. The Iranian authorities had an interest in making this story disappear, and they have done a very effective job. They expelled all foreign reporters, imprisoned most active local ones (according to Reporters Without Borders, forty-one Iranian journalists have been imprisoned since June 12th), and let local stringers for foreign media organizations know that their options included prison, silence, and exile. The inner circles of the opposition candidates, and the independent analysts and civil-society leaders who aggregate and interpret information for the press, are also in prison, or, at the very least, unable to communicate freely by e-mail or phone. Very few unofficial sources of information remain accessible—mainly anonymous, frightened informants on the ground.

The less we hear from Iran, the easier it is to presume that the regime’s strong-arm tactics have succeeded in putting down the protest movement. But the silence we hear is only our own. The protest movement that exploded into Iran’s streets in June was not a momentary flash of anger. It would not have been so heart-stopping if it were. Rather, for the segment of the populace engaged in the protests, it was the culmination of decades of frustrated hopes and indignities. Among the protesters were those who had placed their trust in the reform movement, which had promised evolutionary change through legal means; these people were already bitterly disappointed by the end of the Khatami years, in 2005, and had, with some difficulty, mustered the will and the optimism to participate in the electoral process once again. What propelled them to the streets was the long, slow burn of accumulated grievance, and there is little reason to believe that their fury has so swiftly expended itself.

Iran’s broad middle class has entered into open revolt against its government. The reformists, who once sought to triangulate between these forces and the theocracy, have by and large chosen the side of the protesters. This is a confrontation to be measured not in days but in months, or even years. Among analysts of Iran, debates rage over the relative demographic, political, and economic strength of the opposition coalition. We’ll know it by its failure or its success, and not in the immediate short term.

One fascinating question to emerge in the past two weeks is whether the clergy sides with Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, or with the leading opposition candidate, Mir-Hossein Moussavi. Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri has issued a fatwa that essentially dismisses Khamenei as the country’s Supreme Leader, on the ground that an unjust leader has no legitimacy. Ayatollah Yusuf Saneei has condemned the attacking of protesters as a sin, and Ayatollah Bayat Zanjani has issued a fatwa against coöperating with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s government. Then, too, the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qom Seminary declared the election illegitimate.

But Montazeri, who was supposed to succeed the leader of the 1979 revolution, Ayatollah Khomeini, until he issued an open letter condemning the mass murder of political prisoners in 1988, has been in more or less frank opposition to Khamenei for decades. He has endured house arrest in the upper floor of his home for six years; he has repeatedly denounced Ahmadinejad’s nuclear and even economic policies; he was one of very few public figures to support the student protesters who were beaten and put down in 1999; and he has even defended the rights of Iran’s most persecuted minority, the Bahai. Saneei, too, has long held positions far more progressive than those of the ruling establishment, and the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qom Seminary, which was founded to support former President Mohammad Khatami, consists largely of mid-ranking clerics.

Mehdi Khalaji, an analyst at the Washington Institute who trained as a cleric for fourteen years in Qom, is confident that the clerical establishment supports Khamenei, and that those who dissent are neither politically powerful nor influential within the ulema itself. The silence of the top conservative ayatollahs, he suggests, should be read not as dissent but as approval. After all, the clerical establishment depends on the Islamic Republic for its very existence, financially and otherwise.

What may be most interesting in all of this, for the outside observer, is the illustration of a more diverse Iranian religious establishment than we often credit. In fact, Qom has long housed reformist and independent strains of religious thought. But these voices have been increasingly marginalized. Back in 2007, when I was researching the rise of the most hard-core fundamentalists in Qom, the reformist cleric Mohsen Kadivar told me that such clerics had become increasingly powerful “because they stop every independent voice and current in Qom seminary or Najaf seminary, every city. So we have many clergies, many mujtaheds who are now silent because they cannot do anything. When they are not active in the society, it is obvious that these fundamentalists increase their power, and they have a lot of opportunities.”

One question raised by recent events is whether the conflict has driven a consequential wedge between the part of the clergy that wields power and those who see the clergy as independent—and, as at previous points in Iranian history, as a defender of the people against the excesses of autocrats. Clerics like Montazeri and Saneei may not wield much political power, but their moral authority and spiritual following are large, and probably growing.

Also, the Vice President has resigned:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,6965373.stor

And former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani gave a speech on Friday about the fraud, drawing sharp criticism from the government:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/wo...st/19iran.html

“Legitimacy and acceptance are different in Islamic government,” Ayatollah Yazdi told the semi-official Fars news agency. “Votes alone do not create legitimacy.”

Its like he's trying to piss the Iranians off.

[Despanan]

That whole situation is going to explode very soon.

Honestly, I'm sitting here wondering what to do. I'm not even sure if we can do anything about it.

Fuck.

[Still Jack]

Trying to inject some humor into a tragic situation.

[zerademark]

Ha ha thats funny. Did you do it yourself, Mr Jack?

[Still Jack]

No. Kinda obvious no???

[Despanan]

That is very clearly a professional political cartoon.

This is presenting one hell of an ethical conundrum; on one hand, after years of sticking our noses in other countries business the US has been bit in the ass, and now we're beginning to adopt a more isolationist stance, but is it really right to stand by and let the Iranian government slaughter what is most likely the legitimately elected government?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Despanan

That is very clearly a professional political cartoon.

This is presenting one hell of an ethical conundrum; on one hand, after years of sticking our noses in other countries business the US has been bit in the ass, and now we're beginning to adopt a more isolationist stance, but is it really right to stand by and let the Iranian government slaughter what is most likely the legitimately elected government?

I guess the easy thing in the short term would be to form a cavalry and go charging in, but as we learned that isn't easy in the long term. We can't save everyone, why wouldn't we do that in the Sudan, for example? Why don't we invade Honduras? And while progress is being made in Afghanistan and Iraq, its far from okay there. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, aren't I?

While it is a very worrisome situation, I think the Iranians themselves can handle this. The Iranian government likes to ignore the international community and while they squashing the rights of its citizens they can't afford to lose too much public support. Hell, that article pointed out that even the Ayatollah are divided about this.There probably won't be an immediate resolution but there is still hope for a relatively peaceful one.

[zerademark]

That is very clearly a professional political cartoon.

This is presenting one hell of an ethical conundrum; on one hand, after years of sticking our noses in other countries business the US has been bit in the ass, and now we're beginning to adopt a more isolationist stance, but is it really right to stand by and let the Iranian government slaughter what is most likely the legitimately elected government?

Smashing Pumpkins have the answer:

"Is it bright where you are
Have the people changed
Does it make you happy you're so strange
And in your darkest hour
I hold secrets flame
We can watch the world devoured in its pain"

[Saya]

Should've posted this earlier but when I found out about it I didn't think about doing so, but July 25 there will be rallies in 90 cities worldwide:

http://united4iran.org/

St.John's isn't there though -_-* we never are.