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Old 09-15-2011, 11:35 PM   #1
Renatus
 
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World of Darkness MMORPG

I thought I'd get a heads up on this before they really started releasing a lot more of the details. I've been keeping an eye on this for many years now, and I'm betting some of you have as well, but for those who don't know White Wolf/CCP games have been working on a World of Darkness MMORPG for several years now.... and as soon as next year, it will come out.

Now of course there are some of you who are unfamiliar with what the World of Darkness is.

Some of you have played games such as Vampire the Masquerade:Bloodlines, and Vampire the the Masquerade: Redemption. That is part of the old World of Darkness. There is also a new World of darkness that is quite different yet still the same where it counts. Which world of Darkness will be in the MMORPG? All indications point towards the old world of darkness.

Of course the World of Darkness is more than just vampires, but unfortunately for now they've said it would only include humans as playable.

The game will revolve around the themes of mystery, romance, power, and danger.

Adult content, yes there will be tits blood and gore, though immaturity such as shouting "SHOW US YOUR TITS" will be discouraged since they will be encouraging players to stay in character apparently. Though of course I'd imagine there are tasteful ways of doing that, such as if you're roleplaying a drunken human.

Gay bar, yep this game is GBLT friendly, with gay bars included.

Of course I am only a third hand source, here is the link to the source of my info, where you can find more specifics on the game, though unless you understand the RPG already, you might not understand some of the details specified: http://www.wodnews.net/Wiki.aspx

Here is a trailer that looks to be from some sort of convention, quite likely from the convention white wolf held last year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dos40...eature=related

Here is some of the tech that they'll be using for the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf26Z...el_video_title

Look out for more details in the next few days, as white wolf is having their annual event at this very moment so they'll likely release more details in their panel(the current details are apparently from 2010).




Honestly I am very much looking forward to this. Also I call dibs on being prince of Milwaukee, I make the assumption they'll include Milwaukee in the territories system(described in the notes) in the game given it's past inclusion in the VtM Canon.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:07 AM   #2
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I'm skeptical. oWoD makes an amazing table top, but I really doubt that sense of atmosphere will be captured very well in a multiplayer format.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:17 AM   #3
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I'm skeptical. oWoD makes an amazing table top, but I really doubt that sense of atmosphere will be captured very well in a multiplayer format.
I just realized how retarded this statement is.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:11 PM   #4
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I really loved Bloodlines, so I might look into it. Either way I'm glad its coming out, maybe if they get enough people interested again they might be able to make more single player games.

Wasn't Bloodlines supposed to have multiplayer stuff, but it was released too fast before they could finish?
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:31 PM   #5
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On the surface, this seems very interesting. Been looking for something like this to launch, and I'll continue following it as time permits, but some points you make in your post are more than a bit skeptical.

I'm not familiar with World of Darkness, but I am familiar with Masquerade and have been wondering when someone was going to attempt it as an MMO. I figured since there hasn't been any new titles released in it in so long it has pretty much died out.

How long has this been in development? How are they going to handle dungeons and raids? Will it be a level grinder or stat/skill based? How are they going to handle combat? Will it be simulated or point-n-click? What about PvP or will it strictly be PvE? (not a good idea for any game). Obviously these are questions that should be answered by browsing their site, but their site lacks much info, so since you've said you've been following it for a while, maybe you know some of this.

For it to be released "as soon as next year" leads one to assume they're in beta at the moment, yet visiting their site I couldn't find any screen shots or even concept art to give some sense of where the game is going aesthetically. Not something you'd expect from a company that's already in the business of MMOs. Keeping all of this secret is never good for publicity. It doesn't matter how great a game is if virtually no one knows it exists.

Linking to a random youtube video of a physics engine doesn't give any real grasp of how the game will feel. It's just a physics engine, and gamers are proving they don't care so much about graphics that look "omg so real" as it often leaves the game feeling more fake than it would if they toned down the realism and went with a more stylized artistic approach. Not to mention, hyper realism still requires system resources that the average gamer doesn't have. This was a big problem for Conan, as it demanded a top line system at launch while most gamers were still running a good 6 months to a year or more behind.

The trailer - while promising - again gives no sense of any game aspects, just a lot of fancy graphics cobbled together in After Effects. (Things like this often scream 'vapor-ware') I do however like the style presented there and would love to see a game that actually retained that film noir essence and heavy stylization. Would make for an awesome gothic setting.

It seems they're catering to a very select, targeted audience, which is not a good idea for something on the scope of an MMO. MMOs, if they're to be successful, take years to plan and millions of dollars to develop.

You'll never be able to dissuade the entire player base from not being assholes, the ones who shout "Show us your tits!" as RP is mostly a dead art. Of course this will be argued by the hardcore RPers out there, but all you have to do is look to all the MMOs that have come and gone for evidence. MMO players want the power trip of being able to pwn everyone they're playing against and be the first to get the uber-l33t gearz. they could give two shits about whether someone is in character, or what you name your toon.

Only allowing humans as a playable race will definitely be a downfall unless they plan to expand into more races (very) soon after launch. This is something that even SWTOR is being criticized for. MMO players are an extremely demanding bunch these days and want top notch eye candy and game mechanics and don't want to have to pay the $15+ monthly fees but they also don't want to be inundated by in-game ads in lieu of a lower monthly fee. If it doesn't play like WoW, it won't last. And even if it does play like WoW, it will be criticized for trying to be too much like WoW (look at RIFT, a game that hasn't even been live for a year, is probably the closest you can get to competition with WoW currently, and already is struggling).

It's not so much the economy that's making these games struggle, as it is the lack of new ideas. Everyone is bored with what is currently available, criticizing what's coming before it even gets here. They're sick of the endless level grinding. They want a game they don't have to spend their entire life trying to get anywhere, but at the same time they want a challenge. Content should not be spoon-fed and their efforts to pay off in something that results in more than just gear that will unlock the next level so they can grind for new gear that will be worthless as soon as the next expansion or the next content patch launches. Their existence has to have a direct influence on the overall game world.

So there's a surprising lack of information for this MMO that claims to release next year. Pretty much leads me to believe this is mostly just vapor ware.

If it isn't polished at launch, with as few bugs as possible and enough content and challenge to retain interest, it won't last. Gamers don't want a rehash of everything that's come along before with new graphics pasted in. This is something that so far no game company has been able to accomplish, aside from Blizzard, but even they are failing now due to stupid methods they've implemented over the years, trying to please their customer base without actually listening to what their customers want.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-deviant-x View Post
On the surface, this seems very interesting. Been looking for something like this to launch, and I'll continue following it as time permits, but some points you make in your post are more than a bit skeptical.

I'm not familiar with World of Darkness, but I am familiar with Masquerade and have been wondering when someone was going to attempt it as an MMO. I figured since there hasn't been any new titles released in it in so long it has pretty much died out.
There are two worlds of Darkness. Vampire the Masquerade: bloodlines took place in the old world of darkness, like this MMO will. The Old World of Darkness contained core series for different races that could if the storyteller wishes could all be brought into a story line world of their creation. They contained races such as Vampires(obviously), werewolves, mages(humans using magic), promethians(Frankenstein esque creatures), changlings(humans enslaved by fae, who escaped the fae's dimention), hunters(buffy the vampire slayer), Geist(humans who died, only to be given a second chance, in exchange for also carrying the burdens of a ghost that chooses them based on the way they died).

Quote:
How long has this been in development? How are they going to handle dungeons and raids? Will it be a level grinder or stat/skill based? How are they going to handle combat? Will it be simulated or point-n-click? What about PvP or will it strictly be PvE? (not a good idea for any game). Obviously these are questions that should be answered by browsing their site, but their site lacks much info, so since you've said you've been following it for a while, maybe you know some of this.
They first announced the development back in 2006 when White Wolf games merged with CCP

Quote:
For it to be released "as soon as next year" leads one to assume they're in beta at the moment, yet visiting their site I couldn't find any screen shots or even concept art to give some sense of where the game is going aesthetically. Not something you'd expect from a company that's already in the business of MMOs. Keeping all of this secret is never good for publicity. It doesn't matter how great a game is if virtually no one knows it exists.
They released a bunch of details at the Grand Masquerade this year, a ball that White Wolf holds every year. Unfortunately a lot of the details they released they had people vow to secrecy.

Besides if there is one thing CCP has proven it can handle, it is appealing to a niche market

Quote:
Linking to a random youtube video of a physics engine doesn't give any real grasp of how the game will feel. It's just a physics engine, and gamers are proving they don't care so much about graphics that look "omg so real" as it often leaves the game feeling more fake than it would if they toned down the realism and went with a more stylized artistic approach. Not to mention, hyper realism still requires system resources that the average gamer doesn't have. This was a big problem for Conan, as it demanded a top line system at launch while most gamers were still running a good 6 months to a year or more behind.
Well I'm sorry but that is something I uncovered on my own, it is my belief that it is better than nothing.

Quote:
The trailer - while promising - again gives no sense of any game aspects, just a lot of fancy graphics cobbled together in After Effects. (Things like this often scream 'vapor-ware') I do however like the style presented there and would love to see a game that actually retained that film noir essence and heavy stylization. Would make for an awesome gothic setting.

It seems they're catering to a very select, targeted audience, which is not a good idea for something on the scope of an MMO. MMOs, if they're to be successful, take years to plan and millions of dollars to develop.
As I said

Quote:
You'll never be able to dissuade the entire player base from not being assholes, the ones who shout "Show us your tits!" as RP is mostly a dead art. Of course this will be argued by the hardcore RPers out there, but all you have to do is look to all the MMOs that have come and gone for evidence. MMO players want the power trip of being able to pwn everyone they're playing against and be the first to get the uber-l33t gearz. they could give two shits about whether someone is in character, or what you name your toon.
As EVE online has shown, humans can be tamed, if proper motivation is provided. Death for example will be no joke in this game, at most, you will only be able to die twice. Once as a human, and if you are embraced upon that first death, you will gain a chance at a second death, a FINAL death as a vampire. The problem with most MMORPGs is that people don't worry about being polite because they have no consequences for their actions. Manners in real life are more than just people being nice, it's people trying to not piss off everyone else at risk of pissing them off so much they get killed. Thats another thing that is emphasized in this game, is social skills will be VERY important here, what you say will have a direct influence on what happens.

Quote:
Only allowing humans as a playable race will definitely be a downfall unless they plan to expand into more races (very) soon after launch. This is something that even SWTOR is being criticized for. MMO players are an extremely demanding bunch these days and want top notch eye candy and game mechanics and don't want to have to pay the $15+ monthly fees but they also don't want to be inundated by in-game ads in lieu of a lower monthly fee. If it doesn't play like WoW, it won't last. And even if it does play like WoW, it will be criticized for trying to be too much like WoW (look at RIFT, a game that hasn't even been live for a year, is probably the closest you can get to competition with WoW currently, and already is struggling).
I never said you would only play as a human, I said you could only start as a human. You must keep in mind, all the races you normally can play in the world of darkness start off as human. It is after death that you can truly become something.

Quote:
It's not so much the economy that's making these games struggle, as it is the lack of new ideas. Everyone is bored with what is currently available, criticizing what's coming before it even gets here. They're sick of the endless level grinding. They want a game they don't have to spend their entire life trying to get anywhere, but at the same time they want a challenge. Content should not be spoon-fed and their efforts to pay off in something that results in more than just gear that will unlock the next level so they can grind for new gear that will be worthless as soon as the next expansion or the next content patch launches. Their existence has to have a direct influence on the overall game world.
Well level grinding hasn't been an issue with EVE online, so I'm betting they'll use a similar system here.

Quote:
So there's a surprising lack of information for this MMO that claims to release next year. Pretty much leads me to believe this is mostly just vapor ware.

If it isn't polished at launch, with as few bugs as possible and enough content and challenge to retain interest, it won't last. Gamers don't want a rehash of everything that's come along before with new graphics pasted in. This is something that so far no game company has been able to accomplish, aside from Blizzard, but even they are failing now due to stupid methods they've implemented over the years, trying to please their customer base without actually listening to what their customers want.
You must keep in mind, this will be a sandbox MMO for the most part, and the whole sandbox thing has been really catching on these days. Just look at minecraft.
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:45 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by x-deviant-x View Post
On the surface, this seems very interesting. Been looking for something like this to launch, and I'll continue following it as time permits, but some points you make in your post are more than a bit skeptical.

I'm not familiar with World of Darkness, but I am familiar with Masquerade and have been wondering when someone was going to attempt it as an MMO. I figured since there hasn't been any new titles released in it in so long it has pretty much died out.
There haven't been any video games because Bloodlines was a bust financially. It was developed by Troika Games, and Activision made them release the game before it was totally finished and there were a lot of bugs to still work out. Namely one that made the game crash. Activision's logic was they could release the game as is and then just release a patch to fix the bugs later, which is what a lot of games do today (I think most of the Sims 3 add ons don't work at all until you get a patch), but back then not a whole lot of people were willing to put up with that kind of shit, so no one wanted to buy a buggy game. It was also released after Half Life 2, so there was too much competition. Troika went bust, and no one wanted to touch VtM since. It was a real shame, a lot of love went into it and there's an unofficial patch made by former Troika developers that fixes the more serious bugs.

The tabletops are still around, although the universe VtM was set in is now "finished" and there's a new World Of Darkness. I haven't played it so I wonder how different it is, but taking a quick look at it, looks like there's a lot of different clans and such.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:22 AM   #8
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The tabletops are still around, although the universe VtM was set in is now "finished" and there's a new World Of Darkness. I haven't played it so I wonder how different it is, but taking a quick look at it, looks like there's a lot of different clans and such.
Actually, they have been releasing new VtM materials, they recognized the continued demand for old world of darkness material. They even with the last grand masquerade released a 20th anniversary limited edition with all sorts of goodies. Sure officially Gehenna came in 2004, but one thing they've emphasized numerous times over the years is, THERE ARE NO RULES. So heck if you wanted to be silly and make a story line where someone slays Caine(which according to the source material is impossible pretty much) and all vampires turn back to humans in the classic kill the head vampire sense, then feel free to.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:32 AM   #9
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Oh good, I hope the MMO then is based on the old WoD.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:05 PM   #10
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Oh good, I hope the MMO then is based on the old WoD.
As I've said several times in this thread, IT IS BASED ON THE OLD WOD. Don't worry I'm not mad, I'm just in physical pain at the moment, so currently I'm in sort of a cheery faced, in pain mood:P So I can't really think perfectly clearly at the moment.
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:45 PM   #11
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In my defense, there's quite a few posts here that are tl; dr.

I kinda hope the female characters aren't quite as um, Tits McGee at they were in Bloodlines. I loved playing Malkavian but I had to get a mod, her tits swinging everywhere at the slightest movement was way too distracting.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:01 AM   #12
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In my defense, there's quite a few posts here that are tl; dr.

I kinda hope the female characters aren't quite as um, Tits McGee at they were in Bloodlines. I loved playing Malkavian but I had to get a mod, her tits swinging everywhere at the slightest movement was way too distracting.
Sounds to me like that's more of a half hearted wish on your part. Btw did you at least check out the part of my first post that talks about the sex and GBLT bars they'll have in the game?
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:30 AM   #13
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From my experience with games in the WoD universe, it's not the GBLT community that needs a place to hang out without getting grief, it's the Nosferatu.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:31 AM   #14
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Double post.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:08 AM   #15
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Sounds to me like that's more of a half hearted wish on your part. Btw did you at least check out the part of my first post that talks about the sex and GBLT bars they'll have in the game?
I might be queer, but doesn't mean I want my Malk to have a bouncy castle on her chest. The breast physics were pretty ridiculous.

And yeah, it caught my eye, but I think Versus would be watching my character like a jealous hawk XD
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:06 AM   #16
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From my experience with games in the WoD universe, it's not the GBLT community that needs a place to hang out without getting grief, it's the Nosferatu.
Well I have dreams of being prince of either Chicago or Milwaukee, so if you play and were to swear fealty to me, I'll see that your needs are met.
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I might be queer, but doesn't mean I want my Malk to have a bouncy castle on her chest. The breast physics were pretty ridiculous.

And yeah, it caught my eye, but I think Versus would be watching my character like a jealous hawk XD
Fair enough I suppose, I don't like playing genders other than my own so I never saw the breast physics first hand myself. Don't worry thought this is going to be using a different physics engine, so it'll probably be not as jiggly.

Can't say I'm fond of the male Malkavian outfits though.

I am curious how accurately they will depict the cities that they do include in the game. In the source books they did a pretty good job of covering Milwaukee.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:28 AM   #17
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Well I have dreams of being prince of either Chicago or Milwaukee, so if you play and were to swear fealty to me, I'll see that your needs are met.
You know, the last Prince I dealt with told me the same thing, but didn't follow through. His utility bill was recorded as not being paid shortly after and he was forced to find hygiene accommodations elsewhere. Weird.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:07 AM   #18
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You know, the last Prince I dealt with told me the same thing, but didn't follow through. His utility bill was recorded as not being paid shortly after and he was forced to find hygiene accommodations elsewhere. Weird.
Would you mind telling me a bit about this deadbeat prince?
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:56 AM   #19
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Namely one that made the game crash. Activision's logic was they could release the game as is and then just release a patch to fix the bugs later, which is what a lot of games do today (I think most of the Sims 3 add ons don't work at all until you get a patch), but back then not a whole lot of people were willing to put up with that kind of shit, so no one wanted to buy a buggy game.
And still dont. I'm surprised Activision was willing to attach their name to a game with so many bugs. MMOs are an entirely different creature from stand-alones. The standards they're held to are much higher. While no game can ever avoid bugs entirely, MMOs still have to be pretty flawless at launch, or at the very least, play smoothly enough so that bugs can be ignored without disrupting much of anything. If not, their time frame of fixing known bugs is fractional, as their player-base will start dropping like flies. The Sims is hardly a game model any MMO wants to be compared to on any level.

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The tabletops are still around, although the universe VtM was set in is now "finished" and there's a new World Of Darkness. I haven't played it so I wonder how different it is, but taking a quick look at it, looks like there's a lot of different clans and such.
I've never played tabletop games, so I'll take your word for it. Could never get into D&D or any of those. I tried.

But Masquerade is one of the most heavily mod'd games in history, pretty much the reason why mod'ing became so popular, I think. Next to Oblivion that is.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:46 PM   #20
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I have high hopes for this.

As far as the vampire stuff goes, the writers and developers seemed to have a certain respect for their creation, and stressed trying to keep a certain tone for the game, instead of being a silly free for all. That's not to say there wasn't some ridiculous shit, but they really pushed for an immersive experience. I hope that this doesn't go out the window.

I'm absolutely thrilled that they're basing it off the original World of Darkness.

Of course the last time I was psyched about a White Wolf game, the Werewolf PC game imploded in on itself...
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:04 PM   #21
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And still dont. I'm surprised Activision was willing to attach their name to a game with so many bugs. MMOs are an entirely different creature from stand-alones. The standards they're held to are much higher. While no game can ever avoid bugs entirely, MMOs still have to be pretty flawless at launch, or at the very least, play smoothly enough so that bugs can be ignored without disrupting much of anything. If not, their time frame of fixing known bugs is fractional, as their player-base will start dropping like flies. The Sims is hardly a game model any MMO wants to be compared to on any level.
Bloodlines was a single player game, not an MMO. Plus I think they'll be extremely worried about repeating history, I'm just saying that this is why they haven't released any VtM games since Bloodlines.

As for Activision, didn't CoD: Black Ops have like super bad bugs after release? Even Bioware released Dragon Age 2 too early and it had bugs, and the original game has a big fuck up bug in its save files, you're supposed to be able to port over the choices you made in your Origins game but it won't work, and no one seems willing to go back and patch Origins again. AND I LOVE BIOWARE.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:38 AM   #22
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Would you mind telling me a bit about this deadbeat prince?
I waited a while to respond to this to annoy you intentionally.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:55 PM   #23
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I waited a while to respond to this to annoy you intentionally.
Oh...oh... umm.....grrrrrr..... you've made me very mad at you...... you can have this present*puts a half of a set of handcuffs on your wrist*..... I made it fresh for you, you can tell by the way it's glowing red...... I feel like I forgot to do something first though.
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:04 PM   #24
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I heard about this.

I wonder if i will be able to play Garou later on if there is a expansion pack.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:59 AM   #25
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So, the WoD MMO has been "postponed" to focus on some other crap that's nearer to completion, while CCP lays off 20% of its staff and tries to desperately save its falling ranks in EVE.

I had a strong suspicion 2012 was a very unrealistic launch date for a game like this. They for some reason, just don't want to admit they're still in concept stage for this game. I say 2014 at the very earliest, if at all. And combined with them "playing" with the idea of perma-death, just shows they really aren't making the greatest decisions here. An MMO can't handle perma-death, unless there's some way of re-rolling a new toon and retaining the majority of skills and aspects that were acquired from the previous character, but then what's the point in having perma-death to begin with? Not to mention it will completely obliterate anyone's desire for PvP, as everyone will be too cautious of losing all they've worked for. An MMO without PvP is an MMO with a very slim profit margin.

Kind'a sad really. This game would be a great addition to a suffering MMO market that's so over-saturated with fantasy themes and WoW clones that no one wants to play anymore, but none of the big developers seem brave enough, or smart enough, to attempt anything new, so they just keep cloning warcraft hoping enough people will like the story. It doesn't really make a lot of sense why no one else has made a vampire-themed MMO yet, especially with the success of Twilight, True Blood, and all the series that have come before them. There's Dark Eden, lol, but the first 5 minutes of that was a big enough joke to hit the uninstall button pretty quick.

It's going to take an independent studio with a lot of talented and devoted staff to develop an MMO that breaks the cookie-cutter on a rail cycle, because it's pretty obvious that none of the big guys are willing to do it.
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