Helping suggestions for those who get heckled

[Lolly PopMuzik]

Gothic Charm School by Jillian Venters.

I'll admit, I can be defensive at times and get a case of eyeroll from those who absolutely HAVE to go buy milk in their bustled/shredded and be-eyelinered finery but I do think she has some good advice and common sense to dispense.

[crucifix]

Originally Posted by alyroi360

But those are if you DON'T want to stand out. If you do, than by all means, embarass yourself like me.

My thing about standing out is that, well, I don't really like to. Mostly it is because I like to have as little negative interaction with people as possible. Hell, most of the time I am just simply in black and nothing else. My goal in life is not to be known as the friend that always looks outrageous, you know? But if you wanna, then by all means go ahead.....

[crucifix]

Another thought that just popped into my head about standing out excessively, I was looking at my other friends. My best friend is also goth and she does not try to look uber super goth, another friend of mine is emo, and most of the time it is simply tight jeans and a tight band t and the hair and nothing excessive. My other friend is pretty much a hippy and doesn't dress all beat up and not bath and shit. I think that goths are not the only ones who need to be conscious about how they dress. Anyone is any subculture or group of people needs to. Yes, on a larger scale and for the most part I do not care what people think of how I look, I like how I look and that is all that matters. BUT, I also want people to think of me as a nice person and not a weirdo wearing a cape and platform boots all of the time, you know?

[alyroi360]

Yeah, yeah. I agree with crucifix.

[Solumina]

I don't know maybe I just have something special about me but whenever I wear something "outrageous" I seem to make tons of new friends, I guess I come off as interesting and quirky instead of weird, so people are actually more likely to take the time to get to know me and are less judgmental than if I was just wearing something average.

[Anima_Severem]

Fuck the masses, I'm more worried about getting heckled by other goths. I know I get heckled a lot. It's when the heckling turns into full-blown personal attacks that it starts becoming a problem.

As for my wardrobe, I dress pretty normal when I'm out and about. Typical outfit is black pinstripe pants, black collared shirt and a blazer. Also black. And black---...

You know what? My usual wardrobe is black, period. Right down to my purse and everything in it.

[Mark Anthony Quested]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Lately and over time, I've noticed a trend of young goths and spooky kids who complain about getting heckled by the masses. Most of the time, I think it's safe to assume that they get picked on because of how they look and then continue to get picked on by how they act or behave.

What this thread is for is to conjure up some creativity amongst the members to come up with ideas that can still be a fashionably dark aesthetic without putting said fashionista in a pigeon hole of ridicule and mockery.

From my experiences, the more "evil" one looks, the more mockery is bestowed on them. I have come to realize that outlandish fashion isn't so much looked down on as it's more about what kind of message you're really conveying in said image.

So come up with some ideas on how to be "outlandish" that's original or actually unique, or state some things that you've found doesn't help you when you try to look different, but it incites friction amongst the laymen.

What I've found is jewelry. Pentacles, especially upside down ones, will cause people to think you worship satan.

So what about you guys? Maybe this could become a thread of "gothic" dos and suggested "gothic" don'ts.

I am 32 (as of August 2009). When I was a teenager, I got a LOAD of abuse including one death threat. (Why can't people mind the own F'king business and leave me to dress how I like, look how I like, etc?) Sadly, things have not changed since I was a teenager.

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Lately and over time, I've noticed a trend of young goths and spooky kids who complain about getting heckled by the masses. Most of the time, I think it's safe to assume that they get picked on because of how they look and then continue to get picked on by how they act or behave.

What this thread is for is to conjure up some creativity amongst the members to come up with ideas that can still be a fashionably dark aesthetic without putting said fashionista in a pigeon hole of ridicule and mockery.

From my experiences, the more "evil" one looks, the more mockery is bestowed on them. I have come to realize that outlandish fashion isn't so much looked down on as it's more about what kind of message you're really conveying in said image.

So come up with some ideas on how to be "outlandish" that's original or actually unique, or state some things that you've found doesn't help you when you try to look different, but it incites friction amongst the laymen.

What I've found is jewelry. Pentacles, especially upside down ones, will cause people to think you worship satan.

So what about you guys? Maybe this could become a thread of "gothic" dos and suggested "gothic" don'ts.

If you're a guy, stay away from the make-up unless you're going to the club. Depending on where you live, say the Midwest like me, don't dress stereotypical goth.

Really, it depends on where you live. When I lived in the more ghetto areas of Oakland and New Orleans, my dark image actually worked to my advantage. No one fucked with me because no one wanted to know why that crazy looking white boy walked around the ghetto at all hours of the night and didn't look afraid.

When I lived in 9th Ward New Orleans, with some more gothy people living in the other side of the house, the neighbours refered to us as the vampire house and, on more than one occasion, especially if there was more than one of us walking from or to the house, groups of black guys would cross the street to avoid walking by us.

Don't know about now though. I think the emo pussies may have ruined the only good thing that came out of Columbine for us, which was people thinking we were all psychopathic freaks with a tendency for violence.

In the end, as with most bullying type behaviour, I think it comes down to attitude and how you present yourself. If you come off as a pussy little emo loser or self-conscious then people are going to be more apt to heckle you. where as, if you project confidence or just a flat out fuck you attitude, people will be more apt to keep their mouths shut.

If all else fails, your reaction will effect future interactions. If you shrink away from the heckling then it just encourages them. A middle finger may result in violence and should be used sparingly, however, just ignoring it works pretty well. Really though, when you consider things like gay/goth/etc. bashing, the Holocaust, the Crusades and burning witches at the stake, then a little heckling now and then is the smallest price you're going to have to pay for being different so keep that in mind and try not to take it to heart.

[SiouxsiePernova]

Originally Posted by Onyx

Don't know about now though. I think the emo pussies may have ruined the only good thing that came out of Columbine for us, which was people thinking we were all psychopathic freaks with a tendency for violence.

How could that ever be considered to be a good thing? I wouldn't want to be thought of in that way. The teenagers who were involved in the Columbine massacre were not associated with the Goth subculture, either.

[Ophelia's Snorkel]

Well, heckling isn't pleasant, but it's the price you may pay for dressing all gothity-goth. So are surprise hugs and the occasional stalker. Don't like it? Dress to blend in. Think you can live with it? Then dress yourself up in your finest regalia and enjoy yourself!

I always wear outrageous stuff and have for years. I like the clothes I make - they make me happy. As for people's reactions, well, they seem to be equally divided amongst love, hate, and indifference. Meh, so are my reactions to them. We're all just human.

Appearance absolutely sends a message. It can work to your disadvantage if you let it; but it can also help. It can filter out the irredeemably close-minded, whom you'd probably not be able to befriend anyway, so that saves time; it can help like-minded people recognise each other; it can open the door to conversation; it can be used to defy people's expectations and change their perspective on non-mainstream people. Why not enjoy the challenge?

[Mark Anthony Quested]

Originally Posted by Ophelia's Snorkel

Well, heckling isn't pleasant, but it's the price you may pay for dressing all gothity-goth. So are surprise hugs and the occasional stalker. Don't like it? Dress to blend in. Think you can live with it? Then dress yourself up in your finest regalia and enjoy yourself!

I always wear outrageous stuff and have for years. I like the clothes I make - they make me happy. As for people's reactions, well, they seem to be equally divided amongst love, hate, and indifference. Meh, so are my reactions to them. We're all just human.

Appearance absolutely sends a message. It can work to your disadvantage if you let it; but it can also help. It can filter out the irredeemably close-minded, whom you'd probably not be able to befriend anyway, so that saves time; it can help like-minded people recognise each other; it can open the door to conversation; it can be used to defy people's expectations and change their perspective on non-mainstream people. Why not enjoy the challenge?

Sorry, It's NOT the price we should pay! Everybody is entitled to be themselves. Why should we be heckled (and in my case on one occasion, given a death threat), just for being different from all the other sheep? People should just mind their own fornicating business!!! When will the human race move on and embrace differences rather than condemn them!?

Excuse the rant.

[Ophelia's Snorkel]

Originally Posted by Mark Anthony Quested

Sorry, It's NOT the price we should pay! Everybody is entitled to be themselves. Why should we be heckled (and in my case on one occasion, given a death threat), just for being different from all the other sheep? People should just mind their own fornicating business!!! When will the human race move on and embrace differences rather than condemn them!?

Excuse the rant.

Ah, idealism. That's a lovely thought, but it does not take into account the frailties and flaws of the species. It is ultimately doomed to failure. And, personally, I'd rather the world were not perfect, as then I'd be forbidden from making mistakes, being in a grouchy mood, or snarking under my breath about someone who I think is dressed in a fugly, fugly outfit.

[Mark Anthony Quested]

Originally Posted by Ophelia's Snorkel

Ah, idealism. That's a lovely thought, but it does not take into account the frailties and flaws of the species. It is ultimately doomed to failure. And, personally, I'd rather the world were not perfect, as then I'd be forbidden from making mistakes, being in a grouchy mood, or snarking under my breath about someone who I think is dressed in a fugly, fugly outfit.

Dear Ophelia's Snorkel,

Please excuse my ranting; it is a topic that is close to me heart, having been heckled as a teenager (and given a death threat by a moron) and still get heckled as a 32 year old on occasions. Humans, eh!?

[Ophelia's Snorkel]

Originally Posted by Mark Anthony Quested

Dear Ophelia's Snorkel,

Please excuse my ranting; it is a topic that is close to me heart, having been heckled as a teenager (and given a death threat by a moron) and still get heckled as a 32 year old on occasions. Humans, eh!?

No excusing necessary. I get heckled too. And yeah, some of it is worrisome and threatening. But as the rude and immature aren't going to stop themselves, I'd rather not let them stop me. Rant away, with my blessing! : )

[Lolly PopMuzik]

Originally Posted by Mark Anthony Quested

RANT RANT RANT DOWN WITH THE SHEEPLE 32 YEARS OLD?!

I thought that the subcultural martyr complex would have been long gone by the time one hits their mid 20s...

[Mark Anthony Quested]

Originally Posted by Lolly PopMuzik

I thought that the subcultural martyr complex would have been long gone by the time one hits their mid 20s...

Negative comments and verbal abuse can still hurt one's feelings, no matter what age one is. So am I meant to not be insulted by stupid insults from strangers, the time I reach the age of 32? Oh lordy, lordy!

[Ophelia's Snorkel]

Heat - kitchen. You know the drill.

Seriously, though, for every rude comment or glare I get, I get at least one sincere compliment or smile. Mark, either you're doing it wrong, or you're just finding the most obnoxious people on the planet. And at 32 (assuming you've been in this subculture for a while), I'd think you'd be pretty immune to the "ugly freak, fucking goth, oooh look at the scary man" comments.

[Mark Anthony Quested]

Originally Posted by Ophelia's Snorkel

Heat - kitchen. You know the drill.

Seriously, though, for every rude comment or glare I get, I get at least one sincere compliment or smile. Mark, either you're doing it wrong, or you're just finding the most obnoxious people on the planet. And at 32 (assuming you've been in this subculture for a while), I'd think you'd be pretty immune to the "ugly freak, fucking goth, oooh look at the scary man" comments.

Fire - Kitchen - fire hose - put out fire - go back into kitchen - you know the drill!

So there's an upper age limit for when one can feel insulted or not!? I'm sorry, but one can feel insulted by comments from complete strangers regardless of one's age. Maybe comments from complete strangers irritates me more than it does others; we are all different.

(I got into the Goth scene in my mid teens; I'm 32 now.)

Actually, I am a casual goth, but still get the occasional shitty comment from moronic individuals. Some people just cannot mind their own f'ing business; although it is only a few mind.

[Ophelia's Snorkel]

It's not that there's some arbitrary age limit - it's that sooner or later, most people either give up and blend in with the masses, or they stop paying attention to the comments because they're happy with themselves. Why do you care what strangers think of you? As for hurt feelings, all I can recommend at this point is a re-listen to that good old Ministry song. I like you, Mark, and I can accept that you and I may never see eye to eye on this. It's okay, and I hope the harassment lessens for you some way or another.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by Ophelia's Snorkel

And at 32 (assuming you've been in this subculture for a while), I'd think you'd be pretty immune to the "ugly freak, fucking goth, oooh look at the scary man" comments.

I'd think that at 35 I'd be over it, but you know what, if I've had a crappy day or am feeling a bit vulnerable for other reasons then sometimes a comment can still bother me.

On the whole though, I'm far more uncomfortable faking it to fit in than I am enduring the occasional comment. That doesn't mean I'm not conscious of my personal safety, but I'm old enough and ugly enough not to care if someone I don't know from Adam takes offense to my outfit.

If people are bullies, and they sense you're a potential victim, they'll find a way to pick on you no matter how hard you try to appease their sensibilities and keep your head down. Better to do what you like and get picked on than hate yourself, do what you don't like and get picked on anyway.

[SiouxsiePernova]

I haven't actually encountered anyone shouting rude remarks at me for many years now. Perhaps people have finally realised that doing so is very ill-mannered. : P

[creature6]

well read this:
http://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/.../Vi...bculture.aspx?
still i do agree with what you said about the columbine massacre.

[Emerald]

Originally Posted by Mark Anthony Quested

I am 32 (as of August 2009). When I was a teenager, I got a LOAD of abuse including one death threat. (Why can't people mind the own F'king business and leave me to dress how I like, look how I like, etc?) Sadly, things have not changed since I was a teenager.

I'm 37. And yes I too had to endure abuse, and ridicule, including having people spit on me, when I was a teenager. I learnt to just smile, and keep on walking. If somebody else wishes to waste their time, and energy abusing someone they don't even know, that's their problem not mine. Granted these days I don't dress 'Goth' 24/7, but when I do the principal still applies. Giving those who throw insults any sort of acknowledgement, or attention, simply gives them more power and consideration than what they deserve.

[korinna5555]

Apparently, some old fart was making a big deal about my purple hair the other day, not realizing that my mom (who was next to him) and I were together (as I go charging ahead into Borders after Absolute Sandman, teehee).. he said that I just want attention. He was mimicking me and everything. Um, no, I just like purple.
I can be quite.. scathing.. when provoked. Shame I didn't hear him..


Making a big deal about someone because they are supposedly trying to attract attention is quite hypocritical.

[The Divine Ms. M]

I got picked on a lot when I was in 5th & 6th grades so for many years I've been very self concious about being looked at, but as the years have passed I've found that I just don't give a...anymore and ignore any negative looks or remarks I may get (wearing headphones helps this a lot lol). Luckily for me, most people seem to like when I get "decked out" and have said I look nice/pretty/cute ect. which is NOT something I'm used to or was expecting when I decided to dress like that so I've been pleasently suprised & flattered. However, I do realize that those who decide to dress in a more "extreme" way seem to be the ones who bear the brunt of this. I guess my advice would be, chin up & just ignore the f***ers. Be happy & proud of your creativity & who you are even if the words may sting when 1st delivered. Think of it this way: who the hell are they? They don't know you, and most likely (unless, of course, they're at school, work, or you live in a very small town) you'll never see them again anyway.