Liberals: Tolerant or Suckers?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

Because, #1: We're not a hive. Contrary to popular belief - conscious, subconscious or otherwise - our sexual preference does not define who all of us are ; #2: Because I'd rather vote for someone who may not like the fact that I'm gay but will still defend my right to keep what I've spent my life trying to earn in some form or another, verses someone who wants to take everything I've earned and give it to those who don't deserve it, who've never worked for anything they have, and just want to milk the system for every hand-out they can get, all because they think they’re entitled to it simply because they’re here, or because of who they sleep with, or what diseases they have, or what color their skin is. Yeah, discrimination is wrong, but it’s not the government’s job to dictate morals. The only purpose the government is meant to serve is protection from outside forces trying to overrun us, and to protect us from within from charlatans that want to screw us out of what we have.

So, government isn't here to dictate morals, and yet the Repubs want abstinence only education, no Planned Parenthood, no abortions, no gay marriage, no gays at all, religion forced down our throats, invade a country because God told your president to, and spend the money sent to Haiti in trying to convert them from voodooism, but all that matters is that the taxes of people far more rich than probably anyone here on this board gets tax cuts?

I’ve yet to see a policy from any conservatives which are currently in office, or any that have been in office in the past 10+ years, that does any harm to the gay “community”, yet I’ve seen plenty from liberals that have done considerable damage to gay people, all in the name of “just trying to help you”.

So, what policies have the liberals gotten through, that help us? Gay marriage? This DOES NOT help us, it hurts us. Why? There are a lot of reasons why, but primarily, because it’s forcing people who don’t agree with our “lifestyle” to accept our relationships as being equal to theirs, (when clearly they are not equal), thus breeding more hatred and contempt for our way of life. When you force someone to accept something, or to do something, you get a lot more resistance than you would if you show them by way of example. That is basic human nature. I could really care less if gay marriage is ever legalized. Let the majority of each state decide that. There are plenty of other options. I'm not religious and I don't need a piece of paper to claim whether I care enough about someone to spend my life with him. I can leave everything I have financially and materially to that person in my will. I can name him as sole beneficiary on any life insurance policies I might have. I can include him on my health insurance policies if he doesn't have his own. I can sign legal documents that distinguish him as the person who makes the decisions regarding my health or any medical procedures that may or may not arise should I find myself in a situation where I'm unable to make those decisions for myself. I don’t need marriage for any of this.

You go on to say that "privilege" blinds people, but here you are saying "I'm so privileged I don't need marriage to protect mine and my partner's rights, so I don't care." Plenty of people do. Hell, plenty of heterosexual people feel they have to get married to have tax relief and the 1000 benefits a married couple has that a unmarried couple does not have. And you say it should be left to the states, but the DOMA prevented those who could get married in states to receive any federal recognition.

Secondly, it does not make people hate you more. We've had gay marriage in Canada now since 2005 and so far there was no gay genocide, because the right figured out that the country does not in fact crumble to pieces because Bob and Gary tied the knot. People petitioned at first, but now its old news.

How about repealing DODT? This hurts us too. Why? For pretty much the same reasons as forcing marriage. You’re forcing people to accept us, instead of allowing them to see for themselves our similarities and differences, on their own time. Supposedly, in polls conducted within the military, most straight service members don’t seem to care, but as someone who grew up in a military family, whose father served 24 years and was a drill instructor for nearly 4 of those years (most don’t make it past 2), I can assure you, homos aren’t looked at kindly among the majority of guys in their troop. So now we have laws that protect us from discrimination in the military. Great. What is that going to do for gay service members in a combat situation, when the guys who you depend on for helping to keep you alive may not like the fact that you’re a rope smoker?

Again, what privilege! Male rrape victims in the military often fear coming forward because there is a very real possibility that they will be punished as "gay" men. People are fired for no reason except that somehow their sexuality became known. Last year there was a news article about a lesbian who's girlfriend was under police interrogation, and after she refused to speak without a lawyer, the police got revenge on her by outing her to the military. Your livelihood and career, all gone, just because you loved.

How about free health care for persons with HIV? This is horrible. Not only does it hurt the gay community, it’s a detriment to society and removes personal responsibility. Why? Because it helps to promote the idea that being HIV+ is no big deal. “In todays world you can live a healthy, active life with HIV!”. This is not true for everyone. Their TV commercials want to promote the idea that being poz is okay, that with just two little pills a day – FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, you can stay alive and active. What it does not tell you is how many fucked up side effects those drugs produce, and that not everyone – in fact a good percentage of them – do not respond well to treatment. The gay community used to be at the forefront of the fight against the spread of HIV. Now we’ve returned to being the group with the highest reported infections nationwide. Why? Because instead of showing what HIV can and does do to a person, the government wants us to believe that living with HIV is better than living with diabetes. THAT IS FUCKED UP!

When were gay men overwhelmed by another population as the most HIV infected group? It happened originally because there was confusion on how it started, and condoms weren't considered necessary to begin with. Maybe giving people free rent isn't the solution, but no one deserves to die of HIV just because people like you decide that they weren't responsible enough. And the conservative government was the one who wanted abstinence only education and since you can't get married I suppose that means they think you shouldn't have sex ever and you deserve what you get.

[Saya]

There is ZERO reason or excuse for anyone in the modern world to contract HIV today.

Excuse me? Because your boyfriend cheats and you have NO CLUE and you get it, its your fault? because you had sex and the condom broke and your partner didn't know, its your fault? Because that person who had a kidney transplant recently and got HIV, its their fault? Because they were rraped? Because they were forced into the sex trade?

Anyone that is sexually mature knows how to catch it, and knows how to prevent it. And if they don’t, if they’re really too stupid to connect the dots, then all they have to do is look on the internet, or ask someone they know. But they don’t want to prevent it, not the gay community. Many of them see it as another meal ticket today. Ever heard of bug chasers? In the gay community it’s referred to as being “enhanced”. The idea of catching a fatal disease has been replaced with the notion that “If I’m poz, I'll just move to a city like Fort Lauderdale, where I’ll get free rent, free medical, and in a lot of cases, free groceries! So what if I have to take a pill twice a day for the rest of my life. It’s like taking vitamins!”. Or, you have those that are poz, who want to convince you “you might as well infect yourself, you’re gay, you’re going to get it eventually”.

I'm sorry, I thought you said gay people aren't a hive? And again, how is someone with an abstinence only policy going to know? And my god most people do not know basic research skills, internet sources can be a fucking NIGHTMARE. Asking someone you know? Depends on who you ask, isn't it? You say already there's a lot of misinformation in the gay community you've been exposed to, so how reliable is "ask someone!"? And if Planned Parenthood is gone there's a big LGBTQ ally gone that is trying to encourage safer sex.

I don’t agree with discriminating against those with HIV. I agree with discriminating against those who lack personal responsibility and integrity. I would be fine with helping out the guy who got infected due to situations or circumstances completely beyond his control. Those are the people I feel sympathy for and would gladly help pay for his medical treatment, if he honestly couldn’t afford it himself. But those cases are few and far between.

Further, it helps promote promiscuity, and lack of personal accountability. "I'm this much less responsible for my actions. The state will take care of me."

The majority of HIV infections come from people that completely disregard the concept of personal responsibility, and those are the ones I have zero sympathy for. If we weren’t giving them free medical, if they knew they had to pay for their own treatment should they get infected, AKA: BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS, maybe they’d use a bit more caution in terms of who they jump in the sack with. Oh, they didn’t. Tough fucking shit. Reap what you sew.

So we should go CSI on how a person got HIV to determine if we'll let him die or not? And I thought you said there is NO reason why anyone should get it at all, so yeah you do discriminate against people with HIV.

There are some things liberals do that help gay people, at least on the surface, but very few. Eliminating discrimination in the work place is one. Allowing a transgendered person to change their gender on their birth certificate is one, (although, even though my best friend is ftm trans, I’m not sure how much I agree with changing gender ID, but instead, maybe adding a 3rd to the list).

Jesus fucking Christ, you're okay with transphobic policy, and then whining about other people's privilege. You're pathetic.

Regardless, the list of policies that liberals push through, in the name of “good”, that actually detriment the gay "community", far outweigh any policies any conservatives have tried to push through, in recent years, in terms of being beneficial or detrimental to our way of life. What I see in the gay "community" is a large number of them handing over their freedoms in order to be considered “equal”. The gay "community" is not a community at all. If it were they would be breeding a stronger sense of self worth and personal values. They aren't. The majority of them are self-centered, pop-culture addicted sensationalists that put having fun and getting off on the next high above any kind of self preservation or making themselves appear to be productive members of society. They thrive on being in your face and getting special treatment for being different. If there were any real sense of community among them, they'd work on establishing more stable relationships, and actually look out for one another. They don't. They flock to whatever politician is willing to give them what they think they want, instead of those who offer to reward them for what they've actually earned. All their bitching and whining for equal rights does nothing but breed more hatred and contempt from those who disagree with them, and paints targets on their heads for those who want to use them to promote their own agendas. Maybe when the pink triangles start being produced again, when the boots are on their necks, they’ll finally realize they’re just pawns in a game of control and that the system really has no further use for them.

This country is not moving towards communism. The ideal of communism in its sweetest, most equal form, will never happen – at least not in our lifetime - humans aren’t designed to handle that. What we’ve become are socialists on the fast track to a rebirth of fascism. People are just too fucking stupid, brainwashed, gullible, privileged, or whatever synonym you want to put in there, to see it.

Yeah, the worst countries for gays are those that pushed for gay rights. I mean, Canada is just a hell hole here. Listen dude, repubs have a self interest in preserving the hegemony, nothing is going to change if you don't stand up for yourself and demand your rights. You're getting complacent and just settling because you were brainwashed to believe that having public services is a commie pipe dream that will end AMERICA.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Wow that giant wall of TL;DR is so wrong and full of fail I'm not sure if I should respond.

But before I respond, I must ask members who have been here longer if this guy is a well known troll.

No, I think he's legit that stuck up his own ass.

[Despanan]

TL;DR post is TL;DR.

As for Deviant...Saya, is there a specifically gay term for an "Uncle Tom"? Because from what little I've gleaned from his post, that's pretty much what Deviant is.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Yea, Desp pretty much summed it up.

[Saya]

Yeah, I know, its just one of those things that makes me AAAAAARGH. I don't really expect complete solidarity among LGBTQ, but it really fucking hurts when people are privileged but want to hang on to that and make believe everything's okay and no one really gets hurt, as long as you do xyz it'll all be okay, instead of using it to help those who aren't.

Uncle Tom of the gay community = gay Republican?

[JCC]

I'm coming out of retirement to say that x-deviant-x is a douchebag. And also that Cuban and Venezuelan leftist movements are a better example of a socialist model simply in the sense that they empower a larger and much poorer economic underclass than a relatively developed white European mixed economy like Sweden. But mostly just to say that x-deviant-x is a douchebag.

[Vivisection]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

The other issue is that true liberals are usually pretty intelligent people who are open to compromise, whereas far-right idealists have no room for compromise.

What a load of bullshit. I hope you enjoy your membership of the cool club, all inbred and self-assured.

If I had a penny for every mouth-breathing, barely-sentient piece of shit with a Che Guevara T-shirt that had the most ignorant, non-objective views on issues like nuclear power, vegetarianism and world history I'd be a rich man.

I've found from personal experience that people on the far-left are often some of the most brainwashed, indoctrinated people on the face of this planet. They will refuse point-blank to consider any number of things that challenge their views because to do so would be to uproot what they consider their vital 'liberal' identity. This is why many leftists always lambaste the people they see as their enemies as “fascists” or “neo-conservatives” because once they’ve labelled them they no longer need to listen to them.

The truth is that the far-left is just as ignorant, bigoted and blind as the far-right. I always say that the political spectrum is like a circle; the further left or right you go the more and more similar they become. Where they meet they are indistinguishable.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

What America needs is what we have in Ireland, Columbia, Cuba, Venezuela, and a few other places around the world - a militant leftist movement. Until the left in America stand together and adopt the same tactics the far-right have been engaging in for decades there, there will be no real solutions or change.

You must be fucking kidding me. In Ireland you have a population that has voted for Fianna Fáil time and time again in recent history. You voted for them after Charles Haughey swindled the lot of you and you voted for them again again after Bertie Aherne did the exact same thing. You did not even manage to convince your own government to stop allowing US bombers to refuel at Shannon airport during the last Iraq war. You have fur farms, battery-farmed chicken, and far-leftist parties that are, for all intents and purposes, castrated due to their ridiculous patronage to political correctness.
Where is this active militant left? Or maybe you are talking about the hypocritical imbeciles in UCC that prevented a debate on freedom of speech with threats of violence a couple of years back when David Irving was invited to the college?


Oh yeh, we like Cuba. Fidel is one of the nice dictators. Yeh he's like cool and shit. Not like Hitler and Stalin and any of those bad dictators. Yeh, not at all like Gadaffi. His state imprisons protestors and executes dissidents, there is no real freedom of expression and emigration is illegal or some shit but hey, but he looks good on souvenir t-shirts and plastic plates.

Lol and it's so typical of people who identify with the left to go around sucking Hugo Chavez' balls. Yeh, again, he's a nice dictator, he's not one of the bad dictators. Maybe if you do a little bit of research you’ll realise he’s not the morally-righteous knight in shining armour you need him to be.

[Alan]

Can you tell me the bad things about Chavez that make him a dictator?
EDIT: Let's amend that. Can you tell me what it means to be a dictator AND THEN tell me what makes Chavez one?

[x-deviant-x]

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm coming out of retirement to say that x-deviant-x is a douchebag. And also that Cuban and Venezuelan leftist movements are a better example of a socialist model simply in the sense that they empower a larger and much poorer economic underclass than a relatively developed white European mixed economy like Sweden. But mostly just to say that x-deviant-x is a douchebag.

Right. Which is why so many of them risk their lives every year in shark-infested waters just for the chance to make it to Florida, to the land of capitalist pigs who just want to enslave them. Because things are so much better in Cuba, I guess they’re coming here to spread the good word.

[x-deviant-x]

Originally Posted by Saya

Jesus fucking Christ, you're okay with transphobic policy, and then whining about other people's privilege. You're pathetic.

Please point out where exactly I said that I’m okay with transphobic policy? Or is this yet another example of you twisting what I actually did say, to suit your point? Because it definitely was not in the statement that you quoted and responded to. Let me guess. You’re referring to my statement about adding a 3rd gender? Of which, I said I’m not sure of. Which means, I’m on the fence about it. I’m still unsure whether the good in it outweighs the bad.

Either way, how is this transphobic policy when there are plenty of people all over the world –trans and non-trans alike- who find it insulting to be labeled male or female, and would instead prefer to be considered the 3rd gender. If you’d spent as much time associating with gay people as I have, from all different parts of the globe and walks of life, maybe you’d be aware of the 3rd genders’ presence. But no, instead you label me “pathetic” after automatically assuming you fully understand what I’m talking about. Much the same as you assume you know what is best for glbtq people and their “rights”. Just like most of the other “straight allies” seem to do, always assuming they understand what it’s like to be gay, or queer, when in fact you don’t have a clue, and you never will. No more so than I will ever know what it’s like to be a woman. So if you really think you’re supportive of gay rights, which it seems for the most part that you are, or at least you think you are, then don’t start bashing a gay man who stands up and says “this isn’t the best way to go about all this in the long run – we’re causing ourselves more harm than good” which is exactly what I’m saying. I’m not saying this shit because I want to start an argument, or because I’m a “troll” as most everyone here seems to love labeling anyone who doesn’t conform to their ‘perfect’ way of how they think things should be. I’m saying this shit because I’ve lived in the gay world every minute of every day for the majority of my life. I’ve seen what they do to each other, how they treat each other, good and bad, what matters to them, what used to matter to them, and what doesn’t anymore. I know good, honest gay people who are smart enough to see how society and our government is using us as a tool. How many people have you watched die from diseases like HIV? How many ex’s do you have that have accused you of infecting them, just so they can deflect their responsibility and pretend to be the victim? Your heart is in the right place, but your brain is being washed by the bleaches of conformity.

[x-deviant-x]

Originally Posted by Saya

And my god most people do not know basic research skills, internet sources can be a fucking NIGHTMARE. Asking someone you know? Depends on who you ask, isn't it? You say already there's a lot of misinformation in the gay community you've been exposed to, so how reliable is "ask someone!"? And if Planned Parenthood is gone there's a big LGBTQ ally gone that is trying to encourage safer sex.

“Most people don’t know basic research skills…” !!!Really? WOW. You’re going to use THAT as an argument? Pure ignorance? THIS is the wings you want socialism to be ushered in on? “Most people are too stupid to do their own research.” That’s about as pathetic as saying “most people don’t know how to add and subtract”. And the sad thing is, you’re ABSOLUTELY right. Because since the 1970s when our education was FEDERALIZED, our aptitude tests have been circling the toilet bowl. We can now pride ourselves on having the MOST EXPENSIVE education system in the world, and the DUMBEST students. But hey! At least our unionized teachers – teachers who can’t be fired regardless of how SUCK-ASS their teaching skills are - can all have great lookin tits and an endless supply of Viagra, thanks to federal money – you know, the money our schools are supposed to be using to teach our kids. But according to you, “We NEED socialism because most people are too stupid to think for themselves!”

Why does the person you ask have to be a member of the gay community? How about asking someone at school, like a science teacher, or a librarian. Oh, wait. That would require people to actually GIVE A SHIT about their education. It does, after all, take so much time away from facebook and omg txtng, and the next party and who Paris or Britney are fucking this week – you know, the really important shit. Who needs education? It’s much easier to control people when you keep them stupid.

Since when is having an abstinence only policy wrong – so long as it doesn’t become law – that’s a personal choice – a very honorable choice I might add, and how, exactly does it excuse intelligence? Ignorance is not an excuse. Ignorance of the law won’t protect you from the law – at least not in the US – so why should ignorance of the facts entitle you to hand-outs?

I never mentioned anything about Planned Parenthood, but since you did, just how much of a supporter they are for the LGBTQ community is up for speculation. Personally, in contrast to everything else, I don’t have much of a problem with them. It’s one of those “lesser of two evils” issues with me, but - I’ve never once had to go to them for any of their services, nor do I know of any glbt people that have. I do know that they provide free hiv testing, or at least they used to, but so do most PRIVATELY FUNDED glbt community centers.

“Don’t have unprotected sex! It’s dangerous! It’s wrong! But if you do, we’ll help you.” That is hardly encouraging safer sex. All that does is discourage common sense and – once again, encourage the abandonment of personal accountability. I’m not against abortion. While I’m beginning to see why more and more people consider it murder, I’m still, for the most part, pro choice. I don’t agree with using it as a form of birth control, like so many do, and organizations like PPH tend to encourage, however I am very much against forcing tax payers who don’t agree with abortion to pay for abortion, or to support any organization that condones it, if they don’t agree with it.

PPH should be a privately funded organization, just like any other community service organizations. It’s for the community, so it should be funded by the donations of private citizens of that community who support and believe in it. It doesn’t matter what the organization is, or what purpose it serves. It is up to that organization’s founders to garner enough support from the community to continue operating. If enough of the community doesn’t want it, then why waste the resources it takes to provide it?

When you force someone to pay for something they don’t want or don’t agree with, you’re removing that person’s freedom of choice. THERE IS NO DENYING THIS FACT. Let’s suppose, for example, we pass legislation that allows the KKK to receive funding from the government. It doesn’t matter whether you disagree with the KKK or not, your taxes will still fund at least some portion of their operation. How is this ANY different than forcing someone who believes abortion is murder, to support any organization that performs abortions? When you provide for one and deny another, you are discriminating.

"I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." In a free society, When you remove a person’s right to free speech, you are removing their right to have an opinion that differs from your own – that is NOT a free society, that is a dictatorship.

[Alan]

Wow man, you're quite the fascist. But please keep on answering Saya's criticisms. Don't think we didn't notice you haven't answered even half of them.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

Please point out where exactly I said that I’m okay with transphobic policy? Or is this yet another example of you twisting what I actually did say, to suit your point? Because it definitely was not in the statement that you quoted and responded to. Let me guess. You’re referring to my statement about adding a 3rd gender? Of which, I said I’m not sure of. Which means, I’m on the fence about it. I’m still unsure whether the good in it outweighs the bad.

Your friend deserves to be addressed by whatever gender he wishes to, it isn't any of my business or anyone elses what is between his legs.

Either way, how is this transphobic policy when there are plenty of people all over the world –trans and non-trans alike- who find it insulting to be labeled male or female, and would instead prefer to be considered the 3rd gender. If you’d spent as much time associating with gay people as I have, from all different parts of the globe and walks of life, maybe you’d be aware of the 3rd genders’ presence. But no, instead you label me “pathetic” after automatically assuming you fully understand what I’m talking about. Much the same as you assume you know what is best for glbtq people and their “rights”. Just like most of the other “straight allies” seem to do, always assuming they understand what it’s like to be gay, or queer, when in fact you don’t have a clue, and you never will. No more so than I will ever know what it’s like to be a woman. So if you really think you’re supportive of gay rights, which it seems for the most part that you are, or at least you think you are, then don’t start bashing a gay man who stands up and says “this isn’t the best way to go about all this in the long run – we’re causing ourselves more harm than good” which is exactly what I’m saying. I’m not saying this shit because I want to start an argument, or because I’m a “troll” as most everyone here seems to love labeling anyone who doesn’t conform to their ‘perfect’ way of how they think things should be. I’m saying this shit because I’ve lived in the gay world every minute of every day for the majority of my life. I’ve seen what they do to each other, how they treat each other, good and bad, what matters to them, what used to matter to them, and what doesn’t anymore. I know good, honest gay people who are smart enough to see how society and our government is using us as a tool. How many people have you watched die from diseases like HIV? How many ex’s do you have that have accused you of infecting them, just so they can deflect their responsibility and pretend to be the victim? Your heart is in the right place, but your brain is being washed by the bleaches of conformity.

Dude, I am queer, and I'm in school studying gender. I know good honest gay people and I know asshole gay people who feel its their place to tell the rest of us what's what. Having three genders doesn't cover it and its insulting that you think transsexuals should de facto identify as a third gender. If a ftm transexual told me he wants to be identified as a man, why should I say "no, it causes too much harm, you're third gender?" What harm is there in him having "male" on his card? Does the person at the liquor store or the bouncer at the bar or the employment agency really need to know that he might have a cunt? How about genderqueer people who appreciate that gender is a social construction and its bullshit to think there might only be three? I don't want to check off any three. Someone who you would qualify "third gender" might have a completely different gender identity than other people in that label, its not fair that cisgendered assholes get to dictate who they are.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

“Most people don’t know basic research skills…” !!!Really? WOW. You’re going to use THAT as an argument? Pure ignorance? THIS is the wings you want socialism to be ushered in on? “Most people are too stupid to do their own research.” That’s about as pathetic as saying “most people don’t know how to add and subtract”. And the sad thing is, you’re ABSOLUTELY right. Because since the 1970s when our education was FEDERALIZED, our aptitude tests have been circling the toilet bowl. We can now pride ourselves on having the MOST EXPENSIVE education system in the world, and the DUMBEST students. But hey! At least our unionized teachers – teachers who can’t be fired regardless of how SUCK-ASS their teaching skills are - can all have great lookin tits and an endless supply of Viagra, thanks to federal money – you know, the money our schools are supposed to be using to teach our kids. But according to you, “We NEED socialism because most people are too stupid to think for themselves!”

Canada's socialized schools are doing just fine, thank you. And research is a skill, some people just don't have it. Its not a stupidtiy thing at all, if research was piss easy we wouldn't need librarians. Its not a matter as you go on to say, of just not caring, but googling shit isn't the end all and be all of research. Hell, how many schools even teach kids how to use a computer? Nice try, McCarthy.

Since when is having an abstinence only policy wrong – so long as it doesn’t become law – that’s a personal choice – a very honorable choice I might add, and how, exactly does it excuse intelligence? Ignorance is not an excuse. Ignorance of the law won’t protect you from the law – at least not in the US – so why should ignorance of the facts entitle you to hand-outs?

Because the point of a school is to teach, not to prevent you from learning. They teach you to count and what proper manners are and even, gasp, biology that you need to know. I know women who don't know where their clit is, and thats a sin.

I never mentioned anything about Planned Parenthood, but since you did, just how much of a supporter they are for the LGBTQ community is up for speculation. Personally, in contrast to everything else, I don’t have much of a problem with them. It’s one of those “lesser of two evils” issues with me, but - I’ve never once had to go to them for any of their services, nor do I know of any glbt people that have. I do know that they provide free hiv testing, or at least they used to, but so do most PRIVATELY FUNDED glbt community centers.

Here, Planned Parenthood organizes Pride week and a LGBTQ youth group so kids don't feel alone, and provide other resource centers with tons of information we probably wouldn't have otherwise, so we are better able to serve the LGBTQ community, and until maybe ten years ago it was the only known safe space organization for gay people in the entire province, the only other one now is the LBGT resource center at my university, so its still the only one non students can take advantage of.

“Don’t have unprotected sex! It’s dangerous! It’s wrong! But if you do, we’ll help you.” That is hardly encouraging safer sex. All that does is discourage common sense and – once again, encourage the abandonment of personal accountability. I’m not against abortion. While I’m beginning to see why more and more people consider it murder, I’m still, for the most part, pro choice. I don’t agree with using it as a form of birth control, like so many do, and organizations like PPH tend to encourage, however I am very much against forcing tax payers who don’t agree with abortion to pay for abortion, or to support any organization that condones it, if they don’t agree with it.

A lot of PPs don't provide abortion at all, and no they do not advocate it as a birth control, they advocate it as a safe option. If you get pregnant and you contact them, they'll tell you all your options and won't bullshit you. Its very easy for you to create standards for others that you yourself won't ever have to live up to, isn't it?

If you have protected sex, if you're very careful, something bad can still happen. PP doesn't ask questions because its none of their business, they give you all the information you need on protection and birth control, will give you free std testing and condoms, and make sure you're aware of your options. Better than what schools do.

PPH should be a privately funded organization, just like any other community service organizations. It’s for the community, so it should be funded by the donations of private citizens of that community who support and believe in it. It doesn’t matter what the organization is, or what purpose it serves. It is up to that organization’s founders to garner enough support from the community to continue operating. If enough of the community doesn’t want it, then why waste the resources it takes to provide it?

When you force someone to pay for something they don’t want or don’t agree with, you’re removing that person’s freedom of choice. THERE IS NO DENYING THIS FACT. Let’s suppose, for example, we pass legislation that allows the KKK to receive funding from the government. It doesn’t matter whether you disagree with the KKK or not, your taxes will still fund at least some portion of their operation. How is this ANY different than forcing someone who believes abortion is murder, to support any organization that performs abortions? When you provide for one and deny another, you are discriminating.

"I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." In a free society, When you remove a person’s right to free speech, you are removing their right to have an opinion that differs from your own – that is NOT a free society, that is a dictatorship.

Well, I'm a pacifist but a lot of my taxes go towards the military, when do I get the check in the mail? I don't use the fire station, when can I expect their funding cut? I obey the law, so I don't want to pay for the police or the court system or prisons anymore. I walk, so I don't want to pay for roads. I can get bottled water, I don't want to pay for other people's water either.

Go fuck yourself and live on an island if you don't want to associate and help your fellow human beings, who you'll have to rely on when you're old and there's no one willing to take care of you.

[CptSternn]

There isn't much I can say that hasn't already been said. (I should have checked back sooner!)

But a couple things here -

@x-deviant-x

You are against gay marriage because it offends some of the non-gay community? Is that not like being black and standing up against the right for blacks to vote because it offends the kl@n? The thought boggles the mind.

The same goes for the idea that only people who want HIV get HIV. That is saying only people who want to get sick, get sick. It also is saying vulnerable people in society should have to take care of themselves.

That seems to be a popular idea these days with Ayn Rands new film at cinemas now, but it is far from what people want. If we go down that path you might as well bring back the old Inuit tradition of putting old people on free flowing chunks of ice and sending them off in artic waters once they become too old to hunt.

The sad thing is, it is a very American attitude that is out there. Another similar example is what is happening in Wisconsin with the unions. Some people are ANGRY! Very ANGRY! Why? Because a group of public sector workers have some rights!

Why then do they not fight for the same rights in the private sector instead of fighting to strip rights from a group which fought for decades to get them?

It's a certain mindset that has evolved over there that would rather strip their fellow man of their rights rather than fight to uphold ones they themselves are entitled to. It's sad really.

[Annihilation]

WOW massive derail.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by x-Devant-x

If you’d spent as much time associating with gay people as I have, from all different parts of the globe and walks of life...

I get you G. You're like some sort of gay researcher. Professor McButtfuck, back from his trip to the Cocksic tribe of Fire Island, presenting his dissertation on how the best way to advance gay rights is to not advance them at all and let poor people die of AIDS because that'll learn 'em.

I get you with your Lady Ga-Ga beats and your Mud-truckin' and your arrogant judgmental self-contradicting political stances. You a' self-hating Uncle Tom, who shares more in common with the bug-chasers than your tiny red-neck mind is probably able to comprehend.

Let me spell it out for you: You a fuckin' Quizling, in the face of oppression you don't even have the dignity to roll over and die, you throw up your hands and say: "Wait! I'm on YOUR side!" Shit, in the face of a Zombie Apocalypse I give you five minutes before you're shambling around and chowing down on your boyfriend's leg saying "You guys with the shotguns? YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE!"

You know what the sad part about it is? I doubt you'll ever come out of it. Like the fascists of occupied France who wound up being some of Hitler's last troops, you and your dipshit GOProud butt-buddies are going to be sitting at the feet of your bigoted, corporatist/evangelical masters and begging for the next punch in the eye and thanking them for every dickslap till they discard you like so many used condoms. The fact of the matter is that the people that you support hate you, and will never except your lifestyle, nor treat you like a person, but that doesn't matter to you does it? What matters to you is that someone dieing of a terminal disease feels "extra super bad about it" and be further punished and made to pay for violating your oh so important code of "personal responsibility" (sic: "live the way I live or die and go to hell sinner")

So in summation: GET FUCKED and die in a clean-burning fire you self-hating Uncle Tom incarnation of failure and anxiety. Your very existence offends me to the core of my being and the only thing that I take comfort in, is that your ideas, and culture will die with you regardless of the outcome. You are human garbage. You and everyone like you will join history's rogues gallery of madmen, fools, and collaborators, may some magical imaginary friend in the sky have mercy on your soul, because you're not getting it from me.

TL;DR: Fuck You Uncle Ruckus.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Professor McButtfuck

Oh, this thread was worth it for that alone! *CHUCKLES*

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

Oh, this thread was worth it for that alone! *CHUCKLES*

I am a wordsmythe.

[Versus]

I am distinctly reminded of the abortion thread. I must have looked like an ass hat. Maybe not as much, I hope. I, at least, didn't say that the overwhelming opinion of the community and the government don't hold a candle to my retarded world view.

I was writing a long winded response, but I got distracted and became tired soon after. I woke up thinking "What's the point, anyway?" Deviant is beyond words.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Versus

I am distinctly reminded of the abortion thread. I must have looked like an ass hat. Maybe not as much, I hope. I, at least, didn't say that the overwhelming opinion of the community and the government don't hold a candle to my retarded world view.

I was writing a long winded response, but I got distracted and became tired soon after. I woke up thinking "What's the point, anyway?" Deviant is beyond words.

I remember that thread. Good times.

You at least had enough presence of mind to realize you were wrong Versus. I doubt Deviant does. This is a guy who feels it's morally wrong to eat meat but still eats meat. He's kinda beyond logic.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Despanan

This is a guy who feels it's morally wrong to eat meat but still eats meat. He's kinda beyond logic.

Pretty sure Alan does this. Or believes in veganism but is only vegetarian. Something like that.

[Alan]

I do. How did we go from Deviant being an idiot to Desp making another nirvana fallacy after the addiction thread?

[x-deviant-x]

Originally Posted by Despanan

I get you G. You're like some sort of gay researcher. Professor McButtfuck, back from his trip to the Cocksic tribe of Fire Island, presenting his dissertation on how the best way to advance gay rights is to not advance them at all and let poor people die of AIDS because that'll learn 'em.

I get you with your Lady Ga-Ga beats and your Mud-truckin' and your arrogant judgmental self-contradicting political stances. You a' self-hating Uncle Tom, who shares more in common with the bug-chasers than your tiny red-neck mind is probably able to comprehend.

Let me spell it out for you: You a fuckin' Quizling, in the face of oppression you don't even have the dignity to roll over and die, you throw up your hands and say: "Wait! I'm on YOUR side!" Shit, in the face of a Zombie Apocalypse I give you five minutes before you're shambling around and chowing down on your boyfriend's leg saying "You guys with the shotguns? YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE!"

You know what the sad part about it is? I doubt you'll ever come out of it. Like the fascists of occupied France who wound up being some of Hitler's last troops, you and your dipshit GOProud butt-buddies are going to be sitting at the feet of your bigoted, corporatist/evangelical masters and begging for the next punch in the eye and thanking them for every dickslap till they discard you like so many used condoms. The fact of the matter is that the people that you support hate you, and will never except your lifestyle, nor treat you like a person, but that doesn't matter to you does it? What matters to you is that someone dieing of a terminal disease feels "extra super bad about it" and be further punished and made to pay for violating your oh so important code of "personal responsibility" (sic: "live the way I live or die and go to hell sinner")

So in summation: GET FUCKED and die in a clean-burning fire you self-hating Uncle Tom incarnation of failure and anxiety. Your very existence offends me to the core of my being and the only thing that I take comfort in, is that your ideas, and culture will die with you regardless of the outcome. You are human garbage. You and everyone like you will join history's rogues gallery of madmen, fools, and collaborators, may some magical imaginary friend in the sky have mercy on your soul, because you're not getting it from me.

TL;DR: Fuck You Uncle Ruckus.

You finished salivating with your vitriol? Just like a Nazi. I can almost see you stomping out seig heils with every keystroke.

Since you liberals so love to compare conservatives to fascists, lets see just how many comparisons there are between you and fascists.

Hitler disregarded Christianity and had a known affection for Islam. So do liberals today.

Hitler believed in social justice being carried out by the government. So do liberals.

Hitler believed in a one-party government. Deep down, so do liberals.

Hitler believed in destroying capitalism and the free market partially through price fixing. So do liberals.

Hitler called businesses “cartels” and accused them of exploiting the poor. So do liberals.

Hitler believed in making “unearned income” illegal – basically abolishing new acquisition of wealth. So do liberals.

Hitler believed in the government providing for you once you reached senior citizen status. So do liberals.

Hitler believed that giving to the poor needed to be a legal mandate. So do liberals.

Hitler believed in a form of tolerance that really only tolerated Aryan beliefs. So do liberals.

Hitler believed in gun control. One had to have a government permit to own, much less carry, a gun. Only those considered politically trustworthy got permits for guns. Liberals…well, we all know what they think.

Hitler believed in eugenics. By proxy, so do liberals – in their hailing of Margaret Sanger, an avowed believer in eugenics, as a practical saint.

Hitler believed in what amounts to tribalism – showing pride in your heritage. So do liberals…in the form of cultural pressures to give more to minorities.

Hitler and many of his followers were vegetarians and believed in returning to a more natural form of existence. He was intent on creating national parks to preserve nature. One of the scientists he based the Nazi credo for nature on was Ludwig Klages, who wrote during WWI about how mankind was headed toward deforestation, increasing extinction of certain species, the evils of whaling and destruction of Earth’s ecosystem. Hello…liberals? PETA? Greenpeace? Al Gore???

Quoted from this blog: http://gayconservative.org/2011/04/1...i-comparisons/

So you can call me a self-hating redneck all you want, while you pretend to believe gays are equal. The sewage of anti-gay slurs you just spilled proves your true fascist nature.

I don't mind being called a redneck. I actually look at it with pride, as the term stems from the hard-working men and women who spent their days in the sun, burning the backs of their necks and arms while they worked to farm the land that fed this nation that allows you the freedom to spew your hate without consequence.