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Old 02-22-2014, 12:31 AM   #1
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Perception of firearms owners

Gun owners like myself have long had our public image skewed.

When a spree shooting happens, yes it is a tragic event that should be observed with respect to those who were killed.

That does not happen though, the pro- gun control (anti-gun ownership) crowd, seem all too ready to pounce on the happening and cast the blame on firearms owners.

They seem much like vultures picking at the dead before the dead are buried.

All the while blaming millions of people that did nothing wrong.

I have owned firearms for many years, I target shoot with them, hunt with them, and if the need should ever arise (something I hope never happens) use my firearms for defense of my life and the lives of my family members.

How in the world can otherwise rational human beings seek to blame law abiding citizens or for that matter inanimate objects for the actions of a violent irrational person.

I understand that there is a need to hold someone responsible for the acts, but instead of blaming the person that went on a rampage, they turn that attention to citizens like me that haven't harmed anyone.

The news media seems to do it's dead level best to continue the myths regardless of any actual facts.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:48 AM   #2
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:16 PM   #3
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That idiot does not speak for gun owners.

And fuck you for posting that picture.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:50 PM   #4
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:55 PM   #5
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Really, I think we should do away with private ownership of weapons. Something such as a weapon SHOULDN'T be some sort of personal elective that someone can opt in and out of having.

I think we should make weapon ownership mandatory. I think we should socialize gun ownership and every citizen will be held accountable for their firearms to the same standards as every service member and police officer. This means that you will have a duty, much like paying taxes, of standing accountable for any such loss of ammunition or damage to your firearm. And of course other some regulatory stuff.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:38 PM   #6
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Really, I think we should do away with private ownership of weapons. Something such as a weapon SHOULDN'T be some sort of personal elective that someone can opt in and out of having.

I think we should make weapon ownership mandatory. I think we should socialize gun ownership and every citizen will be held accountable for their firearms to the same standards as every service member and police officer. This means that you will have a duty, much like paying taxes, of standing accountable for any such loss of ammunition or damage to your firearm. And of course other some regulatory stuff.
I completely disagree and feel that ownership should continue to be a personal choice.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:20 PM   #7
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Of course you completely disagree. You don't take gun ownership seriously. You see it as a bullshit hobby. Gun ownership SHOULD be socialized and distributed to the people AGAINST YOUR OWN WISHES because we're not talking about shooting cans in your back yard like some redneck with a power fantasy. We're talking about people either having the ability to end a life quickly and in large amounts or they do not have that ability. And of course you'd LOVE to just leave that ability up to the free market because that means middle class brats will be able to fight back the desperate tides of the impoverished if it ever came to that.

Fuck gun owners. Some of the most annoying of the middle class brats.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:25 PM   #8
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I am arguing that it remain an individual right because it is a better way.

It allows those that don't want firearms in their homes to opt out of it by their own will.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:39 PM   #9
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Really, I think we should do away with private ownership of weapons. Something such as a weapon SHOULDN'T be some sort of personal elective that someone can opt in and out of having.

I think we should make weapon ownership mandatory. I think we should socialize gun ownership and every citizen will be held accountable for their firearms to the same standards as every service member and police officer. This means that you will have a duty, much like paying taxes, of standing accountable for any such loss of ammunition or damage to your firearm. And of course other some regulatory stuff.
Second thought, I shouldn't be so close minded on this.

Okay you say that weapon ownership should be mandatory.

Given the population number and the need for standardized firearms in a common caliber to remove any supply problems that could happen in a crisis.

What type of weapon would you make standard and in what caliber?
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:53 PM   #10
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I'm not that picky. The way I see it, Adults get issued a weapon, maybe a 9 mm pistol. It would I think at least have to be a handgun of sorts. Something that can be easily trained into and handled by most everyone. I'm thinking not so much what would need to be produced as far as weapons are concerned, but the logistics of how we could do such a thing. My take is perhaps reinstating the draft but expand that to several aspects of public service. Not just military service. It's obviously a very very huge scope of a project, I'll admit that.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:00 PM   #11
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Fuck that. 240L in 7.62x51. Everybody gets a 20 pound machine gun. 'Merica.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:03 PM   #12
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Well in all seriousness; a firearm that almost every American can use.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:05 PM   #13
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I'm not that picky. The way I see it, Adults get issued a weapon, maybe a 9 mm pistol. It would I think at least have to be a handgun of sorts. Something that can be easily trained into and handled by most everyone. I'm thinking not so much what would need to be produced as far as weapons are concerned, but the logistics of how we could do such a thing. My take is perhaps reinstating the draft but expand that to several aspects of public service. Not just military service. It's obviously a very very huge scope of a project, I'll admit that.
Speaking from personal experience, a handgun of any type takes a long time to be proficient with, and long guns take a shorter time frame to master.

Also I thought we were talking about civilian ownership only.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:09 PM   #14
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What's difficult about it? Tug that bitch in the general direction of the things that need to die and squeeze her til she sings. As a bonus, you can mount it to your car with a pintle. Everybody wins.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:10 PM   #15
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Clearly, arming all the civilians would require some form of formalized training that everyone would be held accountable to. It's obvious that what I'm talking about would require a lot of subsidy and arguably, there's other aspects of the country that could certainly use that level of dedication on the national level.

I see something inherently fucked up that the only people who can have the ability to kill quickly and in great number hinges on who can and can't afford it, to say nothing about how others get profiled, ect.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:12 PM   #16
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What's difficult about it? Tug that bitch in the general direction of the things that need to die and squeeze her til she sings. As a bonus, you can mount it to your car with a pintle. Everybody wins.
Can they be mounted on Rascals? Reason being is that I'm trying to imagine a situation where at least EVERYONE in America has an equal ability to destroy each other if it comes to such a thing.

You know, I'm thinking of Jimmy from South Park and I wonder how he'd go about using that thing. The kid is on crutches. Can you mount them on crutches?
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:24 PM   #17
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Clearly, arming all the civilians would require some form of formalized training that everyone would be held accountable to. It's obvious that what I'm talking about would require a lot of subsidy and arguably, there's other aspects of the country that could certainly use that level of dedication on the national level.

I see something inherently fucked up that the only people who can have the ability to kill quickly and in great number hinges on who can and can't afford it, to say nothing about how others get profiled, ect.
What you seem to be talking about is a mandated one size fits all solution to multifaceted problem.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:25 PM   #18
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All you need is a neck to use a strap and a working hand, though I'm sure we can work around that. You don't even need to be able to see! I can strip it with a blind fold on.

And a pintle is basically just a ball joint. You can put that on anything. I've actually seen stupid SF trucks with a mount on the passengers door.

Also I oppose formalized training. Unnecessary.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:36 PM   #19
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What you seem to be talking about is a mandated one size fits all solution to multifaceted problem.
The reasons a person might negatively perceive people with a firearm are irrelevant.

They will no longer be able to do so if they own a machine gun because they will also be people with a firearm.

FACT.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:37 PM   #20
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The reasons a person might negatively perceive people with a firearm are irrelevant.

They will no longer be able to do so if they own a machine gun.

FACT.
That is just as retarded as Alex Jones.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:42 PM   #21
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1) Don't appreciate slurs for differently-abled people.

2) At least I can explain myself and give evidence to my argument. You're just making statements without backing them up. Care to explain yourself?

Go ahead. I'll wait.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:08 AM   #22
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Versus, I like your idea. I especially have a very cool image of people on rascals at Walmart rolling through the lanes with their machine guns on the sides of their rascal.

But anyway, my point was that if we're going to talk about people having the ability to kill in large numbers and quickly, then that is something that I think everyone should be able to do equally and no... you can't just opt out of it by not buying a gun because it ignores those that needs that level of protection and can't afford it or are barred from having one because maybe they suffer from a condition.

The thing I don't like is people talking about this kind of stuff in the neoliberal or individualist sense. They want the capacity to kill others and they want certain other people to not have that capacity.

Either that or I'm just really tired of talking about gun rights to people who have very little reason to have one. It's a white problem. Yeah, I said it. Gun ownership, as a political talking point, seems to be overwhelmingly white. Maybe it's just me, but other than Versus, I've never seen or heard a PoC talk about their rights to own a gun.

What's your take on gun ownership, Versus? Truthfully, I'm rather ambivalent about it. I lean more towards disarmament, but I can't help but feel like there are people in America that really DO need the protection a gun can offer such as women, lgbtq, and PoC.
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:08 AM   #23
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Versus, I like your idea. I especially have a very cool image of people on rascals at Walmart rolling through the lanes with their machine guns on the sides of their rascal.

But anyway, my point was that if we're going to talk about people having the ability to kill in large numbers and quickly, then that is something that I think everyone should be able to do equally and no... you can't just opt out of it by not buying a gun because it ignores those that needs that level of protection and can't afford it or are barred from having one because maybe they suffer from a condition.

The thing I don't like is people talking about this kind of stuff in the neoliberal or individualist sense. They want the capacity to kill others and they want certain other people to not have that capacity.

Either that or I'm just really tired of talking about gun rights to people who have very little reason to have one. It's a white problem. Yeah, I said it. Gun ownership, as a political talking point, seems to be overwhelmingly white. Maybe it's just me, but other than Versus, I've never seen or heard a PoC talk about their rights to own a gun.

What's your take on gun ownership, Versus? Truthfully, I'm rather ambivalent about it. I lean more towards disarmament, but I can't help but feel like there are people in America that really DO need the protection a gun can offer such as women, lgbtq, and PoC.
What I want is for people to have a chance to choose for themselves.

The 2nd amendment is a right for all citizens of the united states.

As for what you've been saying, just do a search on you tube and you'll see that while a number of white gun owners have firearms related channels, whites are not alone in defending the right to keep and bear arms.

To over simplify the gun owning members of our society is further proof that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Your arrogance is only matched by your ignorance.
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:35 AM   #24
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Versus, I like your idea. I especially have a very cool image of people on rascals at Walmart rolling through the lanes with their machine guns on the sides of their rascal.
You could even mount them to the handle bars of scooters and segways. Although it would be kind of akward and off-balancing with the full mount for a box of ammo. Maybe if it was canted to the side. The problem with that is left-handed shooters. Although the 240C feeds from the right, it's meant to be used as a co-ax for a stabilized turret and doesn't have a butt stock or charging handle. Hrm... We might need a different machine gun that is ambidextrous.

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What's your take on gun ownership, Versus?
It's problematic.

The first thing is that I recognize that anybody, absolutely anybody, has the capacity to flip their shit and shoot somebody. Contrary to what popular pro-gun arguments try to rationalize, this is not exclusively domain of the criminal, the mentally-ill, the poor, or anybody else. This. Is. Everybody. This is you and I. What really strikes that home for me is that, aside from a mountain of case studies on people who commit second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter, I have personally seen very gentle people be triggered to shoot in rage. A lot of people shoot because it provides a measure of security. It's just something you do because your mind may rationalize that by shooting, you will stop being shot at, and that's all you really want. Some people shoot from a position of safety and have the peace of mind to intentionally miss or intentionally kill. It's a decision. And then there is what I was talking about. The people who are triggered to anger, something like when you punch a wall without really thinking about it.

What separates guns from lesser weapons is that they are so fucking easy to have available and to use. I can flip my shit while driving and hurt some people, I can do it while at home with a kitchen knife or baseball bat or a hammer or in public with a pocket knife ect. ect. The point is that my violence will be limited by the capability of my weapon, and that is the difference between a firearm and anything underneath it. Give me an assault rifle or a compact handgun and see what the fuck that I know how to do, you know?

For that I am a believer in disarmament. However, I recognize that this country is built upon the fucking American Creation Myth like it's infallible or strait from the fucking bible and I understand that disarmament will never happen here unless something changes radically. And that leads to the other problem that you began to touch on:

Quote:
But anyway, my point was that if we're going to talk about people having the ability to kill in large numbers and quickly, then that is something that I think everyone should be able to do equally and no... you can't just opt out of it by not buying a gun because it ignores those that needs that level of protection and can't afford it or are barred from having one because maybe they suffer from a condition.

The thing I don't like is people talking about this kind of stuff in the neoliberal or individualist sense. They want the capacity to kill others and they want certain other people to not have that capacity.
This is directly demonstrated by certain laws that advocate a minimum standard in production quality. http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-design-safety-standards-policy-summary/ An example is melting point laws. A gun must not melt below a certain temperature, thus it must made manufactured with more expensive materials, thus it must cost more to buy, thus it becomes unavailable to people who now cannot afford it.

Quote:
Either that or I'm just really tired of talking about gun rights to people who have very little reason to have one. It's a white problem. Yeah, I said it. Gun ownership, as a political talking point, seems to be overwhelmingly white. Maybe it's just me, but other than Versus, I've never seen or heard a PoC talk about their rights to own a gun.

Truthfully, I'm rather ambivalent about it. I lean more towards disarmament, but I can't help but feel like there are people in America that really DO need the protection a gun can offer such as women, lgbtq, and PoC.
Practically, it makes more sense in American context to give just give everybody a fighting a chance, the oppressed especially. I know a lot of people that legitimately need a gun. Threats to their safety are not a possibility, they are a fucking certainty. You look at the fucking statistics for sexual assault on bisexual women or murder of transwomen and it's fucking mind blowing why people already at the top of the status quo are the ones you see lobbying for the 2nd amendment like it was the coming of Christ. However, therein lies another problem that a lot of people don't acknowledge.

Are you ready for it?

The criminal justice system is a fucking lie.

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It's not about vigilantism. Someone with authority could literally say "It's open season on blacks" and it wouldn't make a god damn bit of difference because the fucking system has more than enough control over our lives to ensure that white people are already entitled to our space and dignity. We do not have permission to resist; we must allow and accept it and pray for mercy, and god fucking help anyone that resists violently.
Even if the oppressed had equal access to guns, it doesn't change the fact that they don't have the same right to use them and are more likely going to be punished for it. The point is painfully clear. "Sure, you can defend yourself from death now, but you're just going to get a life sentence for it later. What's the point? You're better off just taking it and if you're a good sport maybe that'll make it easier."







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Old 02-23-2014, 05:37 AM   #25
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