Rights of Minors versus those of Parents - Page 2

emeraldlonewoulf · 04-12-2006, 11:28 PM

overall, the whole fight for your country, drive a car, buy a pint and vote all at the same age is cool. But 16? the car and a beer is cool at 16, but voting and dying, maybe at least 18?

Icarian Decoding · 04-13-2006, 10:34 AM

The inherent problem with that is, who is mature enough to handle the responsiblity? I can understand when you give a man or woman in the services special privilidges, but should those privilidges extend to someone outside of the service, of the same age? For instance, you could have an MIT graduate, valedictorian, out-standing guy, who doesn't serve the military, want a beer. He wouldn't get it. Yet someone, who only barely made it out of Highschool, smoked-pot, and joined the Army simply because it paid well. He could have any beer he wanted.

Is this right? I say no.

Sobeh · 04-13-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarian Decoding

Yet someone, who only barely made it out of Highschool, smoked-pot, and joined the Army simply because it paid well. He could have any beer he wanted.

Not entirely true - he could have any beer he wanted *and* his CO said he could have. And CO's are the guys who graduated with the smarts and such the first guy in your example did (usually, at any rate), and besides which, the rule in the Armed Forces is generally that the CO takes his guys to the bar just before or just after being posted in hostile areas.

To me, I don't care if you did just barely graduate high school, if you're taking shots from opposing forces, you should have the option to take shots at the bar.

Icarian Decoding · 04-13-2006, 10:56 AM

You're not neccesarily taking shots though. My Dad spent twenty years in the AF, and never once saw active combat. I mean, if you're going out into the boonies, to kill Osama Bin Whatever, I can see having a drink. But taking the entire squadron out boozing, because you just finished filling orders? How is that different from a normal job?

Sobeh · 04-13-2006, 02:31 PM

It has more to do with potential for death than anything else. And, if all they did that day was fill orders and do PT, the CO isn't letting them go boozing, he's making them clean their fucking rifles like the maggoty vermin they are and then they're cleaning the head, those goddamn numbnuts, and then get to bed by God so you can get up at 0330 hours and do more PT.

The boozing rule for the military is rarely abused, and then by people who are soon out of the military.

Icarian Decoding · 04-13-2006, 02:36 PM

Huh, I didn't know that. Cool.
But my question is this: When they are on base, cant they just get booze from the class six?

Sobeh · 04-13-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarian Decoding

Huh, I didn't know that. Cool.
But my question is this: When they are on base, cant they just get booze from the class six?

No idea; my suspicion is that alcohol is a strongly controlled substance, and if some underage PFC gets some he's going to catch hell for it, all the way up to possibly getting discharged.

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 07-31-2006, 08:57 PM

All I know is parents love us, they want to protect us. Laws and such are here to try to protect the parents who are protecting us. Laws are here for the people who care and love. Everyone needs something to go on.

Rosie · 08-01-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

It's completely fair, considering what a financial drain children are.

The truth is, kids are the possesion of their parents til they can take care of themselves. The parents are completely responsible for the child:

1. Going to school

2. Being clothed, fed, bathed

3. Staying away from drugs( do you really think no one gets punished but you if the cops catch you with paraphernalia?)

I could go on, but I have to beat a child.

Baring a responsibility as great as having children isn't all fun and games. Parents don't delight in the fact that they 'own' you. You are an investment.

And investments have to be protected.

That's rubbish.

Kids are a financial drain, so parents own them? What the hell goes through people's minds when they have kids "Hmm, a little person I can subtley mould and control!". It sure as heck seems to be.

Just because kids are a "draw" doesn't mean they shouldn't have rights. They're kids, they HAVE to be provided for to some degree. Not all of us are able to go out into the world at a young age, I still have some trouble being independant and I'm 20. People need taking care of, need to be raised. Why does that mean they should be controlled?

It's just selfish. Not controlling your kids doesn't require any time or effort; less in fact. you just have to swallow your pride and accept that their beliefs, views and ideas are going to be different to yours.

Rosie · 08-01-2006, 04:26 PM

Also - about kids being protected etc. by their parents, what if they're not? What if their parents are worse than average? After all, most people have kids, so why should we consider it a "selfless act"? It's instinct and social roles.

Parents owning kids is disgusting. Unlike some people I've seen the kind of thing it can lead to - like an online friend who had strict mormon parents. She was very strange and turned otu to be a transgender. she was emotionally abused by her parents who forced her to take drugs to "reprogram" her deviant personality. Once she hit 19 she was thrown out on the streets. She was too fucked up to fend for herself. They took her back, but only if she agreed to have her hair cut off shorter than ever.

These are disguting, inhuman monsters who should be locked up. But legally, they warrant little more than a slap on the wrist.

If you think kids should be "owned" by their parents, this is the kind of thing you're endorsing. It's not a rare occurance either.

bulletsinmyhead · 08-01-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emeraldlonewoulf

Several years ago, if you were 15 you could get your permit, and 16 your license. IF you were in extreme circumstances, such as getting to school from rural areas or working on a farm, you could get a restricted license at 14.
Now you have to be 16 for a permit, if you are in school and passing, or have a before dark or before ten p.M curfew, etc., depending state to state, you can get a restricted license at 16 or 17, with the ability to obtain a full license at 18. Many states have just raised the age to 18, period.

My niece is only 14, and she already has her permit. My older sister is teaching her how to drive a motorcycle. Go figure...

firefly · 08-01-2006, 10:21 PM

Well the american goverment is so fuckin jacked up over the years they have raised the age limit on everything.Like beer in the 1800 if you were like 14 you could drink!

BLEED REBELION!!! · 12-10-2006, 04:55 PM

What I am trying to get across is this: When kids go off and do stupid shit, let them. I know I'm responsible enough not to kill myself. If they want to get fucked up the ass by doing something stupid, let them.

i agree. im underage and i dont think i should be owned by my parents i am NOT an object i am a person. i own myself and should have the right to do whatever the fuck i want as long as i dont hurt others. if i wanna fucking light myself on fire and jump into a pool of rocket fuel i should be able to.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-10-2006, 04:58 PM

I'm a cynic, so here we go:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLEED REBELION

i am NOT an object i am a person.

Says who?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLEED REBELION

i own myself and should have the right to do whatever the fuck i want

Who ever gave you such a right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLEED REBELION

if i wanna fucking light myself on fire and jump into a pool of rocket fuel i should be able to.

Why should you be able to?

Where do you get these "divine" rights? What makes you so special to deserve them?

This is not a direct attack to you, but a mockery of all those idiots that say "I have the right to..."

BLEED REBELION!!! · 12-10-2006, 05:27 PM

i say so. all humans should get the same rights (but thats just my opinion) . i dont need some one to give me the right i have it even if others say i dont. if im not hurting you then leave me alone i dont tell others what to do so dont tell me. I have the mental power to make my own decisions i dont need some one all upmy a$$ telling me how they think i should act.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-10-2006, 05:43 PM

I just asked you why do you think you have the right to anything.

Besides, imagine you're left on your own accord since your birth. No one to breast-feed you or cover you. You'd die.
That's a good enough reason for you to be your parents' property.

HumanePain · 12-10-2006, 05:54 PM

Hmmm, I know I am going out on a limb here with the majority of the community, but here is my opinion:

The human offspring takes many years to develop to maturity. During this time the parent has the obligation and (if the offspring is lucky) the desire to protect the offspring so that it may reach maturity. This even means guidance in how to make good decisions. There is a natural protective instinct in parents, that sometimes extends beyond normal guidance and protection during the adolescent years. This is normal, but parents must learn to give the offspring more and more freedom as they get older. If they do not, it turns from protection into mere power control; this may be what you are experiencing.

On the other hand, if the adolescent is still not fully matured, and if it is prematurely left to its own devices, it may not survive to see it's third decade. Brain wiring is not fully connected until the twenties. There is still valid parenting that needs to continue, even into the third decade.

Your frustration may stem from invalid parental control (what music to listen to, your taste in clothing) but it may also stem from valid parental control that is exercised to protect and or guide you (don't drink or smoke until you are of age to make that decision, don't keep your neighbors awake a 3 AM on a weeknight with System of a Down blaring from a stereo at full volume).

We all go through it. I went through it. You'll make it, but yeah, it's tough right now. Best of luck to you Bleed.

BLEED REBELION!!! · 12-10-2006, 07:28 PM

i think i do owe my mother something seeing as she took care of me when i was to young to do so for myself but i do not owe her servitude
or ownership over me. ill repay her for it because when she's old who do you thinks going to take care of her? i am. although my mother may be well... a b**ch i know she cares and she wants whats best for me even if we dont have the same views of whats best. im not very atached to her and i dot much like haveing to depend on other ppl they can hold it against you and all that good stuff . i can take care ofmyself pretty much , and i tend to do as i please despite the punishment i recieve i really dont care and if i was never to see her again i wouldnt be that bothered by it, but i am very aware of my debts and i dont wish to add more even if what i owe so far isnt that huge.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-10-2006, 07:32 PM

You don't think what you owe her is that huge?
Then why are you still alive?

raggedyanne · 12-11-2006, 12:26 AM

I definately am grateful to my parents for bringing me into the world on most days but I do think that after 16 kids should be allowed to live their own lives. I also take issue with the driving/drinking laws. There has to be something wrong with a country where they can theoretically draft you before you can drink and where I have to be 18 before I have all my rights on the road, but can solo and get my license in an aircraft at 15 &1/2!

HumanePain · 12-11-2006, 02:52 AM

OK, I should have addressed the whole "owing parents" thing, butI didn't, because I don't agree with it:

Each generation invests in the next. It has been that way for thousands of years, and beyond; biologically, other species do the same thing.

I have never paid my parents back for the investment in me (about $100,000), instead, I pass along that investment to my children. And I do not expect my children to pay me back, I expect them to raise their children with equal or better investment. It is a one way expenditure.

But you do owe your parents respect. Give respect to gain respect. But I also acknowledge there are poor parents (poor parenting skills, not financially speaking). Parents fall into the distribution curve like any other population, the majority are average, and at the fringes you have the really good ones, and the really bad ones.

angst-zine · 12-11-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLEED REBELION!!!

i think i do owe my mother something seeing as she took care of me when i was to young to do so for myself but i do not owe her servitude
or ownership over me. ill repay her for it because when she's old who do you thinks going to take care of her? i am. although my mother may be well... a b**ch i know she cares and she wants whats best for me even if we dont have the same views of whats best. im not very atached to her and i dot much like haveing to depend on other ppl they can hold it against you and all that good stuff . i can take care ofmyself pretty much , and i tend to do as i please despite the punishment i recieve i really dont care and if i was never to see her again i wouldnt be that bothered by it, but i am very aware of my debts and i dont wish to add more even if what i owe so far isnt that huge.

Hrm, methinks that this person is having problems with their parents right now and rationalization is a crutch. Being a teen is difficult with all the mental and hormonal stimulation, but by calling your parents names all you're really doing is making them unhappy. What this does in turn is make you unhappy. Don't believe me? Try doing something nice for your parents and see how they react. It may just surprise you. : ) When your parents are not happy with you then they will seek retribution, just like you do. Think about it... None the less, minors should be granted more rights to freedoms than they are currently allowed, but who am I to say where the line should be drawn?

Jayden · 12-11-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chloegoth

I think the danger with allowing minors more rights is that not every minor is going to be responsible to use their rights wisely, hence ruining it for those who do. Case in point: government-inforced curfew. There was a point in time during which curfews were not inforced, and some idiot ruined it for everyone else.

Brilliantly put, that just about says it. Pathetic but Oh-so-true. -_-

THE RED BASTARD · 12-16-2006, 09:11 PM

dude, if you took that long to notice how fucked up these laws are, then you must be takin your sweet time. such laws, as you said, basicaly give the parents ownership of their kids like they were slaves. and yeah they go way to far, growing up for me would have been much easier if my parents had no control and i had problems left and right because my parents were usually causeing me the most greif as a child.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-16-2006, 09:20 PM

How can those laws make us slaves when they are the very laws that make the parents have to give us a roof, clothes, food, and protects us from child labor.