President

[.BatteryPoison.]

Originally Posted by OmmadDawn

I suppose you haven't heard about the camps the Bush Administration runs, has been running since they took power? The ones you get into and can never leave from?

146 detainees have been released without charge, 56 have been handed back over to the custody of their governments.

I suppose I have to send you 100 dozen links and you'll all dismiss each of them as fantasies by Democratic extremists?

No, you don't have to back up anything, as you've made clear earlier.

How about the spooks Rumsfeld sent to the Iraqi prison camps whom the soldiers were ordered to work with to do the interrogations? Who were the ones telling the soldiers to pose for those pictures and ride old women like donkeys? How about that Rumsfeld throwing those 19-year-old kids to the wolves?

MPs, out of the entire fucking military, know what's right and what's wrong. How do you think anyone found out about the prisoner abuses? Some MP had enough common sense to report what was going on from inside the prison to the proper officals. Also, Lynndie England is a twisted fuck. She was assigned as a daytime clerk, yet all the prisoner abuse photos she was featured in took place durring the nightshift. She wasn't one of the people told to "soften up" prisoners. This is one of the many reasons she's being court martialed.

Charles Graner worked for the State Correctional Institution at Greene, which has an enormous track record of prisoner abuse scandals. Surprise, surprise? He was also accused of domestic violence many times by his spouse. How this man became an MP is beyond me, as the army quite strictly insists that MPs have a squeaky clean record.

So if you want to insist these people are victims of circumstance, go right on ahead. The CIA does it's homework when they hand off the dirty work. They don't waste their time handing it to bright and shining teenagers. They hand it to people with track records of domestic abuse and fierce hostility, because they know a simple statement like, "soften them up," will somehow translate into "fuck these prisoners with a broom stick."

Support our troops, anyone? Never happened?

Yellow ribbons, anyone?

[MrMaelstrom]

So BT, you do agree that orders were given for the "softening"?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Thanks.

And Kerry did kick some arse tonight. 6am here. I stayed up for it.

[.BatteryPoison.]

"Yes."

Here's an interesting story about David Passaro, an ex-Army Ranger who was hired on by the CIA to help interrogate terror suspects. First of all, Passaro was an extremely violent individual. He was arrested in the early 90s as a police officer for a felony assault against a suspect. The man has had numerous assault charges pinned on him throughout the rest of the 90s and all of his relatives and ex-spouses describe him as a "very hostile man." So why would the CIA hire such a hot tempered man to interrogate suspects in Afghanistan?

Would it surprise you if I were you tell you he is currently on trial for the murder of an Afghan man in custody of one of the bases there? Supposedly he beat him for two days with his fist, foot, and a large, heavy flash-light. On the third day the man was found dead in his cell. No autopsy was performed to determine the cause of death, thusly Passaro is now only up on charges for assault and not murder.

I'll say it again; the CIA doesn't just hand these jobs to the average joe. They know that the people they give jobs and duties to are aggressive and dangerous, and they wield them to do their dirty work - expecting that it will scare the shit out of the other detainees/prisoners and will somehow produce confessions/answers.



As for the debates, I was working late tonight so I only got to see the last 45 minutes. Wasn't impressed with Bush at all. Couple moments he made me laugh, but he just doesn't take these things seriously enough.

[MrMaelstrom]

#Thank you#

He is funny (not always willingly), and knows how to make fun of himself, but today he wavered. Body language does play a part in perceptions.

[AlKilyu]

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

I gave you facts when you asked for them, but you replied with insinuations and questioned my integrity.

Yeah well...oh wait hold on Alanis is IMing me...

...

Yeah she took the words right outta my mouth.

You are definately NOT as yet qualified to question the integrity of my beliefs.

ahahahahahahaha! Why? Post count? "Haven't been here long enough"? Facts. Give them to me. Show me where and how that statement is true. You are a smart guy, but the compliments I give you will never be as big or grand as the one's you give yourself.

You don't want to debate me: fine.
But start something like this, implying that I'm prejudiced towards anyone, and you will swallow those words or apologize for them.

This isn't a warning. It's a direct threat.
I take that kind of shit from idiots. You have no such excuse.

No I don't, not in the state you are in. You hate the U.S. and are known for that. You have a mad-on for us and aside from some American stealing a girl from you on a beach before kicking sand in your face I don't see where it comes from. I don't mind that, I'll take you and your kind on.

But the casual manner in which you mentioned the Jews, THEN told a troll that a joke about Jews being ashes (a joke about concentration camps folks, that's always a hoot) was funny, all the while undermining a fellow mod. THAT'S followed by a rant excusing (in your head) your behavior, which is outta hand as of late.

THEN, when I ask for facts, you fucking STAY UP ALL NIGHT COMPILING A "LIST OF JEWS IN HOLLYWOOD". Two things are disturbing about that "list".
either
a) you researched and put all that time into getting that information or
2) you did a simple "copy and paste" from a site that did, which means you knew just where to find it.

Smart guy, just fucked in the head as of late. What's the deal lately?



Now let's get to the threats.

There are some people reading this anxiously awaiting my response, because they've seen first hand how I deal with threats.

Even if the person who makes them can't back them up, I punish them for the simple fact they thought to disrespect me in such a way.

But...hahahaha sorry I just don't see how you can threaten me. Sure, I suppose you could get Darren to ban me. I don't need to troll or create a second ID for him to do it, it's his board to do with as he wishes. He doesn't need an excuse. So if you talked him into that, that would be Darren's call.

But I am a person who demands people back their words, when they have said them seriously or conviction, with facts.

Go get em.

Post em here.

At the least you won't be researching any Hebrew world conspirises.

[demonic_life_style]

Who in their right fuckin mind would vote for that pussy Kerry. Hes such a dumb ass and cant stick to what he says. If anything he needs to die. See while Kerry sit around and sips on his coffee Bush is takin action and kickin Iraqian ass.

[MrMaelstrom]

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

Yeah well...oh wait hold on Alanis is IMing me...

...

Yeah she took the words right outta my mouth..

Is that an admittance or denial? Some of us at Gothic.net do not listen to Alanis.

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

You are definately NOT as yet qualified to question the integrity of my beliefs.

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

ahahahahahahaha! Why? Post count? "Haven't been here long enough"? Facts. Give them to me. Show me where and how that statement is true. You are a smart guy, but the compliments I give you will never be as big or grand as the one's you give yourself.

Why? For the very same reason you apologized in private before.

Fact: You do not know what my beliefs are.

They were posted here often enough for older members to at least have an inkling of them. You however, weren’t here at the time and are therefore, speculating, which is strange with someone with a fixation on "facts". So yes, right now "haven't been here long enough" seems about right.
You think otherwise? Facts. Give'm to me.

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

You don't want to debate me: fine.
But start something like this, implying that I'm prejudiced towards anyone, and you will swallow those words or apologize for them.

This isn't a warning. It's a direct threat.
I take that kind of shit from idiots. You have no such excuse.

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

No I don't, not in the state you are in. You hate the U.S. and are known for that.

Really?
Is that what your friends tell you?
Have you asked them? Can you back that up with a single, undeniable FACT?
I repeated here time and time again that I do not confuse a people with their government, nor do I harbour any hatred towards U.S. citizens: a FACT you can check with any member of your political spectrum like Tstone, EPS or Wolfmoon.
I understand that a criticism of one’s government can be taken as a direct insult. That is another mistake you made, when truly more was to be expected of you from the content of your posts.

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

You have a mad-on for us and aside from some American stealing a girl from you on a beach before kicking sand in your face I don't see where it comes from. I don't mind that, I'll take you and your kind on.

My kind? Again, you turn it personal whereas I never did.

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

But the casual manner in which you mentioned the Jews, THEN told a troll that a joke about Jews being ashes (a joke about concentration camps folks, that's always a hoot) was funny, all the while undermining a fellow mod. THAT'S followed by a rant excusing (in your head) your behavior, which is outta hand as of late.

For the fucking last time, it was a joke thread.
You can’t take a joke, then check another thread.
The genocidal practices of serbs in one of my jokes didn’t arouse a response from a single fucking person on these boards. Not a single fucking one. That’s what’s shocking when someone suddenly decides to go PC on a JOKE thread.
A newb comes on, a tells a joke, apologises if anyone was offended and you scream blue murder.
Or is it you who have something for some specific ethnicity?
The killing of Bosnians, Croatians and kosovars in genocidal fashion at the hands of Serbians stirred nothing from you or anyone else. I fucking wonder why…
Oh, and the affair was privately discussed between me, Darren and Michelle and there was no blood loss. You know why?
Because we know each other well enough already to know where each other is coming from before deciding the other is a nazi.
Wolfmoon thought I was being anti-american in the “while we’re on politics” thread. I replied. Ask her if she still feels the same. And God knows we see eye to eye on almost nothing at all. This comes from respect.

I point out that maybe we are more atuned to Hebrew people’s struggles for survival throughout the ages because they’ve been well documented in major motion pictures. I also point out that maybe it was because jewish with power in cinema media will (understandingly) want to show the world the prejudice that their people kept being victims of and you basically accuse me of anti-Semitism. No, actually, you don’t even do that, you just imply.
This, inspite of the fact that I repeatedly point out I don’t believe in a Zionist conspiracy or a deliberate jewish agenda.
Still, you keep at it. Am I fucked up or are you ignoring the complete content of my posts and chose what you will to undermine my comments?

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

THEN, when I ask for facts, you fucking STAY UP ALL NIGHT COMPILING A "LIST OF JEWS IN HOLLYWOOD". Two things are disturbing about that "list".
either
a) you researched and put all that time into getting that information or
2) you did a simple "copy and paste" from a site that did, which means you knew just where to find it

Smart guy, just fucked in the head as of late. What's the deal lately?..

Again, personal insult.
One thing is “disturbing”: you didn’t acknowledge or dismiss the facts about jewish in media you asked for yourself, and that I provided.
Yes, I’m pressed for time. I got the list from a web page.
Isn’t that what the net is for?
Is the list any less TRUE? Does me stating a FACT imply anti-semitism? I’d really like an answer.

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

Now let's get to the threats.

There are some people reading this anxiously awaiting my response, because they've seen first hand how I deal with threats.

Even if the person who makes them can't back them up, I punish them for the simple fact they thought to disrespect me in such a way..

Oh, but I guess your insults are much less disrespectful than my mention of a threat.
And I suppose your punishment is a lot more likely than my acting on my threats?

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

But...hahahaha sorry I just don't see how you can threaten me.

Keep it up and find out.

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

Sure, I suppose you could get Darren to ban me. I don't need to troll or create a second ID for him to do it, it's his board to do with as he wishes. He doesn't need an excuse. So if you talked him into that, that would be Darren's call.

I didn’t say anything about banning, you did. Jumping to conclusions again...
I ask for the banishment of idiots only. People who are rude are just spanked or argued until they see the error of their ways.
There's more ways to skin a cat (ask EPS what that means here).
I rarely agree with BT, from politics to M.Manson, but we’ve both been around for a year here and have the utmost respect for each other.
This happens because we ask for the full explanation of the other’s arguments before jumping to conclusions.
I have not, nor do I intend to bitch Darren about this. It really isn’t worth it.

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

But I am a person who demands people back their words, when they have said them seriously or conviction, with facts.

I believe I gave you facts. Your response was your “disturbance”. That’ll teach me to go look for facts. I really came to the conclusion you’re interested in them. NOT!

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

Go get em.

I did

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

Post em here...

I did

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

At the least you won't be researching any Hebrew world conspirises.

That was the last time you did that without me replying in the same fashion. Maybe when you get some of what you dish out, you’ll learn something about respect.

To finish it off, and this goes out to the general public here who's been here for over 6 months: regarding my views people, can I get a witness?

Hang on, I don't need a witness, unless I tricked mods here and they made me their peer.
My God, Weasel, BT and Secret are so stupid and gullible...
It's you who are right, of course.

You can start by pointing out a single insult directed at you by me.

[MrMaelstrom]

Originally Posted by demonic_life_style

Bush is takin action and kickin Iraqian ass.

Yup. 1022 military casualties so far in Iraq alone. I guess that's kicking arse in your book. Are you balancing it with insurgent kills or civilian casualties?

Fucking moron.

Gypsy, you better stay out of that casualty list man. I fucking mean it. Please only put yourself in arms way for civilians and comrades. Let the people who sent you there do the heroics for a change.
You die, and I'll kill you myself. ...er... yeah... that...

[WolfMoon]

ENOUGH!


Come on,Al,Mael.You're killin' me.

I'm not taking sides.

Al,I've never seen Mael make a remark that was blatantly insulting you.I was hoping that your remake about Jews taking over America was just a joke about what Mael had said.If it was the post that was deleted,I probably didn't get a chance to read it before so I don't know what exactly was said.Which I'm not speculating about.

Mael's made plenty of remarks about U.S. foreign policy,government,leaders etc.If we can't accept a little criticism what kind of people are we?He may dislike our government/leader but so do others on here.Are we going to take it to heart?Why bother?Ours is the responsibility of electing the lesser of two evils.

It does disgust me that Disfunction makes the Heil! remarks or thinks that I'm such a brainless moron that would follow an evil dictator.I refuse to make remarks about age because it's truly irrelevant.I do wonder though if he knows quite as much about his own government as the U.S's.But as you've said,Al,he can't vote so his opinions on who the president should be are irrelevant also.

I do have to say that I hate Seinfeld and the way that he portrays jewish people as whiny,spineless people with a million lil phobias.

Am I anti-semetic?

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Yeah,all the heiling is great too.Way to trivialize all the shit the jews went through.

Based on your most recent comment, I decidedly had to take up arms in defense of that heinous accusation. For one, saying "Heil mein fuhrer" only has a connotation to the Holocaust in a PORTION of what occured during the travesties of World War II.

30 million people were killed in the concentration camps; innocent people, many of whom (if not all) did nothing to merit being shut away from the rest of society.

My "heiling" was in reference to the many things Bush has done that the populace has blindly followed, and if anyone speaks out against it, they are often shunned by the group; believe me, I may no longer live in the US, but that doesn't mean my friends don't.

All of the people killed in the "War on Terrorism" that were INNOCENT and DID NOTHING TO MERIT being KILLED total up to a number far greater than those killed in 9/11.

So my statement was not meant to trivialize the Holocaust, but rather to draw a rather accurate connotation. Anyone can get things done, it takes a true leader to do what's best for the nation, and that's where Bush has fallen terribly short.

[AlKilyu]

Settle down Wolf.

By your kind I meant those who rant, not criticize, rant about U.S. foriegn policy. Non-stop. Wasn't racial or critical. I will never take that to heart, rather with a grain of salt.

Although, he made a point of lashing out at demonic_life_style, who took a stance against his own beliefs, whereas Flirting_With_Suicide's comment that bothered members on both sides, got no response.

My remake about Jews WAS a joke at what he said. If you have to ask, heh...I dunno what to say to that.

And I haven't seen a direct personal attack I have made against him in this post. I commented on his emotional state as of late, which isn't (meant to be) a slander, rather a concern. Should I have said it in a PM rather than in public? Probably.

Are you anti-semetic? I don't think so, I'd bet money you are not. And I don't know if you are being silly or that was a sarcastic shot at me.

I hope to God Mael isn't. He is a helluva guy who is really smart, so for that to be the case would break many a heart here.

Not in a crush way, at least not for me.

Sorry man, I've back read a great deal of shit here and lurked for awhile, so I know how you usually post, and I do want to debate with you, just not right now.

[WolfMoon]

It just pains me to see two intelligent men that I respect on here having it out.Mael said that he was having to keep it short an sweet cause he can only spend a limited amount of time on here.Sux,cuz he used to have very long and drawn out posts when was in Macau.That probably has to do with some of his abruptness.As for Mael's lashing out about the war,he has personal reasons that he hates war.

I was just being sarcastic.Though some of my remarks about Seinfeld could be seen as such.

Sorry bout the rant, guys.


Dis,you may see the connotations but I still don't.Even with all the research.I can't say I'm as politically minded as Battery,but I've looked things up.Getting done what you say you're going to do goes a long way to convincing people of your worth to be president.

Based on your most recent comment, I decidedly had to take up arms in defense of that heinous accusation. For one, saying "Heil mein fuhrer" only has a connotation to the Holocaust in a PORTION of what occured during the travesties of World War II.

30 million people were killed in the concentration camps; innocent people, many of whom (if not all) did nothing to merit being shut away from the rest of society.

30 million people is only a portion,yes.Are you implying they're an insignificant portion?Or that Hitler wasn't responsible for the concentration camps?

Please explain because I am having a hard time seeing any similarities between Bush and Hitler.Show me Bush running the camps or killing people for their religeous beliefs.

Guess it would be safer to have someone in office that wants to sit back and let the terrorists keep attacking us.Let's make it easier to get in and out so we can get our asses handed to us.

[AlKilyu]

No one here wants war of any kind. Well I'll stick to "speaking for myself" on that. I don't want wah, Elanoh doesn't want wah...

And there are cases where the U.S. didn't want to get involved in war, World Wars I and II being examples. The nation as a whole, our goverment as a whole, isn't excited any time war is an issue.

Concerning Iraq, people forget the mood around that time. He kept kicking out U.N. inspectors in the face of the world asserting that he cooperate. People forget stuff easy it seems.

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Guess it would be safer to have someone in office that wants to sit back and let the terrorists keep attacking us.Let's make it easier to get in and out so we can get our asses handed to us.

ehahahahaha last night a relative of mine called another relative and asked how she thought the election went. She said and I quote "In the words of (AlKilYu), Kerry got his ass handed to him.'"

:P I didn't invent that saying, but I was flattered to get credit for it!

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Dis,you may see the connotations but I still don't.Even with all the research.I can't say I'm as politically minded as Battery,but I've looked things up.Getting done what you say you're going to do goes a long way to convincing people of your worth to be president.

30 million people is only a portion,yes.Are you implying they're an insignificant portion?Or that Hitler wasn't responsible for the concentration camps?

Please explain because I am having a hard time seeing any similarities between Bush and Hitler.Show me Bush running the camps or killing people for their religeous beliefs.

First of all, it was 30 million people in total killed in the concentration camps; that isn't a portion, it's the whole. What is with you and accusing me of being of an anti-semetic mindset? I think it was a terrible thing, and equally terrible that this "War on Terror" has resulted with a great many innocent people being killed as well. That's the connotation.

Unless you are implying that there is no such thing as an "innocent muslim" and that they are all potential terrorists; are you? I should hope not, and as such will be my assumption, you damn well better get it straight that I know that Hitler was responsible for the concentration camps. With that in mind, that doesn't mean that Bush is without wrong.

A great number of people in Iraq have perished because of this attempt at a regime change in a national environment full of independent warlord's and their militias. It makes absolutely NO sense to attempt to change the regime, unless it's planned to make Iraq into the 51st state, or another Puerto Rico. Which wasn't, and as far as I know, still isn't the game plan. So what then? American soldiers getting killed, Iraqis not wanting the US presence and a bunch of innocents getting killed.

Tell me where Bush is some great leader, please.

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Guess it would be safer to have someone in office that wants to sit back and let the terrorists keep attacking us.Let's make it easier to get in and out so we can get our asses handed to us.

Not at all, but it would be nice if you had someone in office that put forth strategies for military action that was more heavily based on fact as opposed to what later turned out to be fiction. Currently there are a lot of conspiracy arguments about all that happened with the mysterious WMDs, that they were shipped off to other countries... Which seems rather stupid; why would you ship off portions of your weaponry off to another country, ally or not?

In light of that concept, there were no connections to terrorism, the majority of the terrorists that took part in 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia (not accusing Saudis of supporting terrorism) yet eyes were turned to Iraq.

Here's more connotation for you: the German economy post World War I was so craptacular that people ended up using it as wall paper because it was cheaper than actually buying wall paper. Their troubles were related to their past actions, and the whole conflict that developed in World War I with them using the assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand to begin invading the countries supposedly involved with the event (insert "attack that took place on 9/11" into the bolded section for more connotation).

Hitler moved the blame off of the former government and onto the Jews. They were there and had been a scapegoat in the past so it made perfect sense (more connotation for you).

Hitler went on a mission to irradicate the Jewish people (more connotation if you take on the idea of supposed "terrorists").

There's your goddamn connotation. How about the Patriot Act? Gives law enforcement official the right to strip away people's rights if they are suspected of being terrorists. Let's see... treating people like animals... Wait... Hitler never did that, did he?

More connotation. For the love of chocolate-frosted Jesus, THINK before you respond to a comment I make and NEVER accuse me of making light of such things as the Holocaust. It's completely ignorant of you:

"Hitler" does NOT equal "Holocaust"

"Hitler" equals "Stupid reasons for war" plus "discrimination" plus "genocide"

"Holocaust" equals "genocide"

"Bush" equals "stupid reasons for war" plus "discrimination" plus "genocide"

Or how about the whole concept of "If you're not with us, then you're against us"?! That sounds rather Nazist to me! Black and white with no room for neutrality or partial disagreement.

I cannot respect someone like that. Thus explains my comparison between Bush and Hitler.

BP, Al, you may commence tearing this apart.

[TeapotScar]

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Guess it would be safer to have someone in office that wants to sit back and let the terrorists keep attacking us.Let's make it easier to get in and out so we can get our asses handed to us.

That's *not* what Kerry or any of the democrats I've ever spoken with want. Did you catch the debates last night? I didn't, live, but I read the transcript, which is something everyone who missed it should look into. Interesting debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/13/po...TEXT-FULL.html

There's the transcript (sorry, Al, I obtained it from the NY Times, so I know you won't read it, but I'm sure Fox has it up somewhere, if you missed it live :twisted: ), now back to the facts.

What was I saying? Ah yes, Kerry's stance on terrorism is definitely *not* as relaxed as you just implied. John Kerry:

I can do a better job of waging a smarter, more effective war on terror and guarantee that we go after the terrorists. I will hunt them down and will kill them, will capture them, will do whatever's necessary to be safe.

George W. Bush's efforts against terror, however, are disturbingly relaxed. Under this administration;

1) The cargo hold of planes are un-inspected. It would be easy for something devastating to happen.

2) 95 percent of containers coming into American ports are not inspected. That 5 percent is apparently good enough for George Bush, but it's not good enough to John Kerry, and it's not good enough for America.

I could go on, but I'm getting redundant, all of this was stated in the debate.

*During which*, by the way, the president lied to us. :shock:

George W. Bush:

Mr. Bush Gosh, I don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. That's kind of one of those exaggerations. Of course we're worried about Osama bin Laden. We're on the hunt after Osama bin Laden. We're using every asset at our disposal to get Osama bin Laden.

Two lies here.

1) First, the "I never said that" lie.


March 13th, 2002. Bush Press Conference.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLI...sh.transcript/

QUESTION: Mr. President, in your speeches now, you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that?

BUSH: ... So I don't know where he is. Nor -- you know, I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you...

QUESTION: Do you believe the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead of alive?

BUSH: ... you know, again, I don't know where he is. I'll repeat what I said: I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run.

:shock: If you're not as disgusted as I am by his complete lack of concern for the man who organized the September 11th attacks... I...just...don't...know... :cry:

2) "We're using every asset at our disposal to get Osama bin Laden." No... you're using every asset at your disposal while desparately trying to get the country out of the fuck-up, no-allies war that is Iraq... Fact: There are 12,000 troops in Afghanistan, and 150,000 troops in Iraq. I highly doubt those 12,000 are going to find Osama. Why would you lie, Mr. Bush?

Our nation values truth. If you were under oath, that would be a felony, and, once impeached, your right to vote would be taken away.

Let us all join hands and pray for that day...

:twisted:

[Disfunction]

Allelujah, Teapot!

[.BatteryPoison.]

Originally Posted by Disfunction

BP, Al, you may commence tearing this apart.

LOL. I'm just gonna touch on one or two things.

A great number of people in Iraq have perished because of this attempt at a regime change in a national environment full of independent warlord's and their militias. It makes absolutely NO sense to attempt to change the regime, unless it's planned to make Iraq into the 51st state, or another Puerto Rico. Which wasn't, and as far as I know, still isn't the game plan. So what then?

The reason for the regime change was because we, and certain allies, saw Saddam's regime as a threat to the saftey of America. Despite claims in today's politics, we didn't just liberate them for the hell of it. I'll touch base further in a moment about that threat.

Currently there are a lot of conspiracy arguments about all that happened with the mysterious WMDs, that they were shipped off to other countries... Which seems rather stupid; why would you ship off portions of your weaponry off to another country, ally or not?

This may have been true before the report on Iraq's WMDs was submitted. It's been proven now that Iraq didn't have the capability to even produce them (WMDs) in 2003, so no one in the government continues to try that conspiracy theory with much avail.

In light of that concept, there were no connections to terrorism

Teapot and myself had this discussion earlier in the thread. I'll post my response to her from page 17 (...I think):

Originally Posted by .BatteryPoison.

What they're talking about is that no one has produced evidence to show a "collaborative operational relationship" between Al-Quaeda and Iraq. That still doesn't nullify the fact that Bin Laden, himself, met with Iraqi Intellegence and that one intellegence offical was arrested on the Afghan border while pursuing an effort to contact members of Al-Quaeda. Powell also made it clear that communications were active between Iraqi Intellegence and Al-Quaeda via the Iraqi embassy in Pakistan. Not to mention also Abbas al-Janabi's testimony to the U.S. that Iraq and Al-Quaeda had a working relationship.

There are links connecting the two all over the place. Which is all I'm saying. Links between the two. Proving they actually operated together is a whole nother story.

This was all outlined in the 9/11 report. Considering Iraq had open lines of communication with Al Quaeda made everyone in our government uneasy. Combine that with the idea that Iraq was decieving weapons inspectors and were in pursuit of a WMD program (the one thing we were right on - just wrong on knowing what stage they were at), and you have the plausable idea that Iraq could have very well sold a nuke to a terrorist organization, such as Al Quaeda.

"Bush" equals "stupid reasons for war" plus "discrimination" plus "genocide"

The intellegence we had was good, but it was partial and incomplete. What we didn't know for certain we surmised because what intellegence we did have was showing that Iraq was an immanent threat to the United States of America. With the worst case senario in a terrorist attack on US soil being a nuclear bomb going off - we acted immediately in response before we could learn at what stage Saddam's pursuit was. The reasons were just. Both the 9/11 report and the report on Iraqi WMDs show this (Saddam's regime had open lines of communications with Al Quaeda and Iraq was in pursuit of renewing it's WMD program).

Also, "genocide?"

[.BatteryPoison.]

Originally Posted by TeapotScar

*During which*, by the way, the president lied to us. :shock:

To be fair, I'm going to post this article, which shows the John Kerry, a man who's campaign slogan has been to "be truthful with the American people," was also lying last night about a meeting that "Never happend."

[Gypsy2222]

~Eyebrow quirk~







Hmmmmmmmmmm......





I would like to say something regarding these anti-semetic accusations flying around between Mael, AlKilyu, Disfunction and Wolfmoon...


In the great words of Ice....


lo............ lo.............. lo............... lo............. lo............. l......


.



.


........ poop.


I consider myself to be fairly careful on naming those I would consider friends such. For if I choose poorly among friends, then it is a poor reflection of me and the people I surround myself with. I would consider these people in this arguement to be my friends... Please do not make me regret this decision over something so rediculous... The agression and abusive behavior that this conversation is becoming reduced to is... for lack of a better word, stupid. All of the people involved are better than this... I have seen it and I know it to be true... Know that I can vouch for Maels non anti-semeticism... I can also vouch for Wolfmoons... and from what I have seen I believe neither Disfunction nor AlKilyu to have anti-semetic beliefs... You are all better than this... Do not let these sentiments of aggression fester between you...


I fight for the freedom of speech and self expression...


Not the right to "dis" one another....


It saddens me that the most brilliant people I know are so very inclined to hurt one another in this way...

This is the reason I have not posted my second post regarding my political views in this thread...

I was watching.

Forgive my rant....

This is the Gypsy... Signing off.

Always and Forever,
~The Gypsy~

[demonic_life_style]

For all u haters of Bush here what i have to say about that....... FUCK YOU.....like i said before Bush is a doer not a thinker and Kerry is such a frickin flip flop. How could you stand someone and dumb as him who got shot not once but 3 times in war. Ha i think after the first time i would just kinda let the others go first. What kind of idiot is he. All hes a fuckin tree huger who wants to take all my desert fuck that shit....

this'll make u laugh

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/this_land_af

[AlKilyu]

Know that I can vouch for Maels non anti-semeticism... I can also vouch for Wolfmoons...

I appriciate and agree with most of what your saying, but unless you have met the person in person, you really don't know anyone on the net (not you you you as in anyone).

and from what I have seen I believe neither Disfunction nor AlKilyu to have anti-semetic beliefs

Thank you, and you are right on my part, but that phrasing was closer to the truth, in that you can assume but not know for sure.

Here's a shocker: I beleive Hollywood is very Jewish.

:shock:

When the overwhelmingly critical "Basketball Diaries" got snubbed at the Oscars for a Holocaust documentry, shit yeah I was suspisious. Still am.

Conspiracy? Dunno, I'm a person who needs proof before taking a side, but Mael was right in a lot of his observations. It could be said that O.J. was let off the hook due to a jury of his peers being prodominatly black.

But they were made amongst a heated political debate, worded a bit odd, so came off as so.

The joke thread? I'm the most politically incorrect person you'll ever meet. Wolfmoon's post bashing everyone was hilarious. But Mael's defense of the "ashtray" joke around the time of the Hollywood observation seemed suspect. Not to gang up on him but I wasn't the only one that alarmed.

Why did I assume he might have these ideals? Where is lives, I don't know what's considered fact. For all we know it could be in a region that thinks along the same lines as Mel Gibson's dad. That combined with a adimate dislike of the Isreali situation, one could come to that conclusion.

But we outside of that area don't know that. Just as you cannot say that the U.S. as a whole backed an ideal that involved a 'perfect race'.

This could all be resolved if Mael joins me in a spinning of a dradle.

Even if neither of us is Jewish.

[AlKilyu]

Originally Posted by TStone

Bex? Is that you? I done tole ya, no means no!

hehe Bex never made that much sense.

Or was that funny...or just funny...

[Loy]

I've been gone for a couple days, and....wow....this was ugly....

Now, to retort back to Alkilya-It could be argued that majority of the population weren't for these laws. However, most of these laws were voted on by the public in individual states. And in every case, the laws were passed with an overwhelming majority.

Now, the laws didn't just deal with Jews, but also with the physically and mentally disabled, the asians (reffered to in some of these laws as "Chinese"), children of miscegination (that's "race mixing" in laymans terms), and a whole slew of other undesirables.

Now, we didn't go as far as the Germans did in killing these undesirables off, but the laws did allow for indenturing and/or "housing" (i.e. locking up) for indefinate periods of time, and castration/sterilization. It also allowed people who were swept up under these laws to have their property turned over directly to the state (and yes, "property" in this case also includes their children). And in some cases, some of those swept under these laws were used by doctors for "research" purposes.

And guess what....these provisions were spelled out in the laws....that were voted on...and passed...by the voting public....so to say that the majority of Americans at the time didn't support the idea of a "perfect race" is something that could be easilly debated. It'd be as much of a debate as "most Southerners didn't support the institution of slavery during the War of Northern Agression".

As far as the spreading of the news...while you quoted me about the Jewish papers and the foreign press, you forgot to quote the rest of my sentance, which pointed out that a resolution was introduced in congress calling for the United States to condemn Nazi Germany's treatment of the Jews at the outset of our entrance into WW2. Now, I don't think resolutions like this would just pop up based off of a distant rumor, do you? I mean, do we have resolutions calling for the US to condemn the actions of the Solarians against abductees?

[Loy]

A few articles that piqued my curiosity

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...88.htm&sc=1131

http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/ne...d=415898&rfi=6

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story....5&nav=168XRvNe

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/9836814.htm

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=71805

http://www2.kval.com/x30530.xml?Pare...GroupID=x30530

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/l...?storyid=25257

And on the Dems side

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/localstoryN02FRAUD.htm

and this one I find humour in

http://www.newyorkcityvoices.org/nov001.html

You know, after the whole 200 debacle, and all of this kind of crap (don't even get me started on the whole fucked up "voting machine" thing I see as becoming a HUGE problem for this election), I'm not suprised that we're going to have Foreign Observers at different polling stations across the country this time around.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinio..._thomas01.html

http://washingtontimes.com/national/...5723-1192r.htm

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by .BatteryPoison.

Also, "genocide?"

[n] systematic killing of a racial or cultural group

(I am aware that you know of its definition, justing putting it out there for reference.)

What has been happening is an eradication of various cultures through the implimentation of democracy at a time of extreme political instability; as soon as the military is pulled out, it will collapse into ultimate chaos... You can't try to turn an area of that sort into USA jr... Good intentions aren't enough to do something of this sort. They would accept democracy on their own terms... military implimentation heeds great difficulties varying on the culture.

This doesn't mean I support dictatorship, it just means that when the time is right, they can overthrow their own leader... It takes time and patience.. And just because democracy works in one cultural division, doesn't mean it works in the other. And (bad to start sentence with and *dun dun dun*) thus explains my very "misleading" usage of the word "genocide."