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Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStone

In the realm of capitalism, when one purchases a business one ALSO assumes any previous debt, and instead of resurrecting those previously paid and e-published stories, why not erase the debt owed to all the writers that went without pay a contract renewal with first time publication payment? Nepotism, or sadism?

Err, or just bad buisness sense?

You might want to re-state that in clear English.

Although the sale was supposed to include the rights to work previously published on Gothic.net, the new ownership did new contracts and paid every writer contracted a second time.

Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 03:32 PM

The current owners of Gothic.net have paid every writer they contracted.

Obviously, the previous management was not able to pay their bills for writers or hosting or anything else. This is why they accepted charity hosting and eventually sold off most of their assets. Nobody disputes that the previous management was either unable or unwilling to pay as agreed.

As previously stated, Gothic.net is currently closed to general submissions. It would be wrong for there to be market listings which would encourage writers to create work which could not be submitted at this time.

From what you posted here, your fundamental complaint is not solely that you posted on a message board and your posts are still here. You also wish to complain that writers were paid too much.

horrorgirl · 05-31-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStone

I'm also stating, emphatically, that the new site owners are idiots, and have no idea what they are doing.

Agreed. Word.

Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStone

Hmmm, read the faqs, eh? Well, how about this. My work was on the site prior to the change of ownership, and with the change of ownership the boards faq section went up, which is when I STARTED petitioning for my work to be removed, since your new FAQ’s enabled you to STEAL intellectual property, so if you are arguing that my work was your property since it preexisted when you took over ownership then you negate your previous argument that you do not owe other writers for published contracted work prior to your ownership.

How fucking thick can you be?

Posts to a message board are not "work" a writer such as yourself would typically be paid for. Would you have preferred that the database for these boards not be imported into the improved and faster script? Would it have been better if everyone's words and logins and profiles just disappeared? What would have been the point of preserving the site then?

People need to learn to think before they post to the web, as almost everything ever posted online is archived in perpetuity in numerous ways. If you place something in a free forum, it is not theft for that thing to remain there. If you spraypaint the side of a building, the building owner is not stealing from you if they choose not to paint over what you wrote.

Everything contracted by the current ownership for Gothic.net has been paid for. If one listens to you, the writers were paid too much.

If a store goes out of business, the person who buys the fixtures from it does not owe payment for the defunct management's past due phone bill.

Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStone

I'm also stating, emphatically, that the new site owners are idiots, and have no idea what they are doing.

If you are reduced to name-calling, it means you know you are wrong.

Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 05:06 PM

This is not about simplicity. It is about being accurate, being correct, being right.

What leads you to believe that the current owners of Gothic.net purchased the business in its entirety? That is so patently not the case, but presumably you base your wholly inaccurate assumption there on something. There are numerous assets from the now defunct business which were not transferred from the former owners.

You are invited to point out anything Gothic.net's current owners contracted which you think they didn't pay the writers for.

You have once again failed to answer any of the questions posed.

What would make you think you deserve to be paid for something you chose to post to a message board? Posts to a message board are not "work" a writer such as yourself would typically be paid for. Would you have preferred that the database for these boards not be imported into the improved and faster script? Would it have been better if everyone's words and logins and profiles just disappeared? What would have been the point of preserving the site then?

Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 06:38 PM

What is factual is that Gothic.net's current ownership has conducted its business in a thoroughly decent, reasonable, ethical, and proper way and you are libelously attempting to make perception be something other than what is factual.

Have you ever contacted Gothic.net privately via email or snail mail with a professionally-worded query about this story you have just mentioned for the first time? It does not appear on the site at this time, does it? Was that story ever published?

Stories which are currently published on the site have been paid for, by the current owners, per the terms of the contracts those authors signed with the current ownership.

How precisely would you propose that Gothic.net's current owners go about finding out who the former owners might potentially have had a deal with and whether or not they paid as agreed?

Posts to a message board, if you want to get all literate about it, are intangible. Name a few horror or gothic message boards which pay everyone who chooses to make a post.

The right thing to do is to take care of people one works with, which you admit the current owners of Gothic.net have done, albeit at a higher rate than you think is appropriate.

You still have not answered would you have preferred that the database for these boards not be imported into the improved and faster script? Would it have been better if everyone's words and logins and profiles just disappeared? What would have been the point of preserving the site then?

horrorgirl · 05-31-2006, 08:06 PM

*passes you a blue raspberry Otter Pop*

Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 08:11 PM

You already admitted that you were talking more about perception than fact. You may want to retain competent legal counsel if you don't understand libel law. Not that anyone here is likely to waste legal time on you. If you think linking to a 290 page PDF is proving a point, you might want to try narrowing it down to a specific cite of what you believe to be pertinent or perhaps relevant caselaw.

So, the summary of what you have to say is:

Okay, you lied about purchasing a Wolverine statue via a banner on this site.

Okay, you admit that you believe that all the currently contracted Gothic.net authors have been paid, although you think they were paid too much.

You think that the defunct management kept something akin to business records and they should have passed those over to the people who purchased some of their assets.

But you think funds to pay people like writers appear through alchemical magic, so this site should only run banners which do not interest the forum members.

Guess what. The former owners of Gothic.net apparently shared your view that money appeared via alchemical magic and they ended up breaking what is apparently a large number of promises to a lot of people, the current owners of Gothic.net included.

And you still have not answered would you have preferred that the database for these boards not be imported into the improved and faster script? Would it have been better if everyone's words and logins and profiles just disappeared? What would have been the point of preserving the site then? Have you ever contacted Gothic.net privately via email or snail mail with a professionally-worded query about this story you have just mentioned for the first time? It does not appear on the site at this time, does it? Was that story ever published?

This site is not a tease of a strip club nor is it a used car lot which dabbles in crack sales. Maybe you preferred the way this site used to be run, but the current management believes in keeping promises and not making promises until it is definite that they can be kept. Word should be bond.

horrorgirl · 05-31-2006, 08:36 PM

Dear Gothic.net,

You seem like a very unhappy person. You need the magic of Ronnie James Dio in your life.

DIO - Rainbow In The Dark

When there's lightning - it always brings me down
Cause it's free and I see that it's me
Who's lost and never found
I cry for magic - I feel it dancing in the light
But it was cold - I lost my hold
To the shadows of the night

There's no sign of the morning coming
You've been left on your own
Like a Rainbow in the Dark

Do your demons - do they ever let you go
When you've tried - do they hide -deep inside
Is it someone that you know
You're a picture - just an image caught in time
We're a lie - you and I
We're words without a rhyme

There's no sign of the morning coming
You've been left on your own
Like a Rainbow in the Dark

When there's lightning - it always brings me down
Cause it's free and I see that it's me
Who's lost and never found
Feel the magic -feel it dancing in the air
But it's fear - and you'll hear
It calling you beware

There's no sign of the morning coming
There's no sight of the day
You've been left on your own
Like a Rainbow in the Dark

WolfMoon · 05-31-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horrogirl

Remember....I'm gothtastic!

And lickable.

I've got some ideas for banner ads, I don't know any company names, though.

How about something that appeals to the great many gothic people that frequent these boards? I know that some people don't like them, but how about a banner for Gothic Beauty?

How about banners for groups that interest us? Cinema Strange, Legendary Pink Dots, Rammstein, Genitorturers, Skinny Puppy, Type O Negative?

To advertise a band in the emo genre on a Gothic forum, it's like a slap in the face to some of us. What's next? Simple Plan? Hawthorne Heights? Blink 182?

In case you haven't been paying attention to the boards, the great majority of us are not Emo. We laugh at them, we flame them, we leave them crying.

Tom, I love you.

Ben Lahnger · 05-31-2006, 09:41 PM

Current ownership has turned a blind eye to MANY conversations herein where people inquired about submitting their writings for free.

If writers were interested in submitting their work for review, expecting no more payment than the good exposure that being published here would bring, then money is no longer the problem. True, hosting and maintaining this site incurs some costs, and I have no problem with you getting your advertising dollars where you can. But calling this a literary site when there isn't even a mechanism in place for people to submit their written offerings - not even one listing of an email address - is a farce.

By the way, you have lots of pretty banners rotating through here. I would think they generate enough revenue to pay for one new piece a month, at least. Unless you're getting paid on a click-through basis. Then I could see you having a problem. I myself haven't clicked on a banner since February ... when I realized you weren't supporting the literary side of this site.

But, hey, cheer up! These are some lovely gothic chat rooms you're hosting!

Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xnguela

T did not lie about the Wolverine statue... He said he wasn't going to buy one, and he hasn't. It was funny, because all of us regulars know that TStone is an X-men fan. It was a joke.

Here is where TStone claimed to have a Wolverine statue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TStone

Bah. *Goes back to enjoying his statue*

But, the conversation was about the fact that the banners that get the most complaints are exactly the ones that actually show results, and the banners that don't get complaints also don't perform. It was about the fact that a negative response to the new AFI banner was so predictable that we actually had an office pool on how many minutes it would take before someone such as HorrorGirl would make a snide comment about it. TStone did not get a Wolverine statue, not that this is any sort of big deal, but it underlines the point being made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xnguela

It's interesting that you've become "riled up" about this issue.

I'm not sure why, I just find it interesting.

Fundamentally, a guy who asks people to call him Weaselboy tried to weasel on the deal he made with Gothic.net's current owners and he didn't get his way on every little thing. A lot of people seem to think the recent rash of troll activity was his doing. It took up a lot of the moderators' time and was purely malicious. If the former ownership had put half the energy into making this site viable that they have put into causing problems for its current incarnation, it probably would not have been necessary for them to sell off any of its assets.

Eventually the moderators and owners had to get tired of him and his cronies doing everything they can to drag the site down. TStone is warning writers away from the site, yet the current owners have paid every writer they have contracted to appear on the site. What is there really to warn them about? All these folks are doing is undermining a totally ethical site because the previous less reputable owner is disgruntled about some nonsense. If people like TStone are going to continue to post complaints about fictitious problems and make wholly inaccurate assertions about the character and ethics of this site, yes, eventually we might respond. We might ask them to actually support their claims. This is the part where they start having problems because people such as TStone are so unable to logically support their false claims that they are reduced to swearing and name-calling. Don't expect a lot of threads like this, as it is not particularly gratifying to debate with people who keep dodging direct questions and clearly have no intention of attempting to work out any problem they might have. If the only thing about a person which is gothic is their love of complaining, it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of energy taking their complaints seriously.

WolfMoon · 05-31-2006, 10:11 PM

I'd hesitate to think that the Former Owner would waste time on such a thing.

Gothic.net · 05-31-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

I'd hesitate to think that the Former Owner would waste time on such a thing.

Except for the part where he said he was going to do so. Agreed that it is sad.

Nike · 06-01-2006, 05:16 AM

When I came to g.net originally, I was linked to the site from Neil Gaiman's homepage if I remember correctly. However, the link's no longer there.

And on another note, you asked for input according new features for the boards - I could live happily without any new features, but I'd like to see some efforts in keeping g.net a bit more clean - there's so much spam, trolling, hate speech going on here that it is often very annoying - and in keeping it what it is anounced to be - a "bone chilling literary culture". I think adding new feature needs a lot of time as well, time, that could be used to keep he boards cleaner.
It would have been nice to informed about why submissions are not accepted and for how long - if g.net is ever supposed to be a literary site again, or why old submissions have been removed. Just a little info, just a few lines, that would have been great.

It is sad to recieve information only in a thread like this, where you feel the need to react on rantings.

Blaming the former owner for the trolling is bit poor, since we can not see where he had stated to do so - appart from that I agree with Wolfmon - it remains doubtful that he would waste his time for something like that.

horrorgirl · 06-01-2006, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothic.net

Here is where TStone claimed to have a Wolverine statue:

But, the conversation was about the fact that the banners that get the most complaints are exactly the ones that actually show results, and the banners that don't get complaints also don't perform. It was about the fact that a negative response to the new AFI banner was so predictable that we actually had an office pool on how many minutes it would take before someone such as HorrorGirl would make a snide comment about it. TStone did not get a Wolverine statue, not that this is any sort of big deal, but it underlines the point being made.

Fundamentally, a guy who asks people to call him Weaselboy tried to weasel on the deal he made with Gothic.net's current owners and he didn't get his way on every little thing. A lot of people seem to think the recent rash of troll activity was his doing. It took up a lot of the moderators' time and was purely malicious. If the former ownership had put half the energy into making this site viable that they have put into causing problems for its current incarnation, it probably would not have been necessary for them to sell off any of its assets.

Eventually the moderators and owners had to get tired of him and his cronies doing everything they can to drag the site down. TStone is warning writers away from the site, yet the current owners have paid every writer they have contracted to appear on the site. What is there really to warn them about? All these folks are doing is undermining a totally ethical site because the previous less reputable owner is disgruntled about some nonsense. If people like TStone are going to continue to post complaints about fictitious problems and make wholly inaccurate assertions about the character and ethics of this site, yes, eventually we might respond. We might ask them to actually support their claims. This is the part where they start having problems because people such as TStone are so unable to logically support their false claims that they are reduced to swearing and name-calling. Don't expect a lot of threads like this, as it is not particularly gratifying to debate with people who keep dodging direct questions and clearly have no intention of attempting to work out any problem they might have. If the only thing about a person which is gothic is their love of complaining, it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of energy taking their complaints seriously.

YOU are the one who made this thread what it is. All I did was originally complain about a banner ad. You could have left well enough alone and stayed silent as usual. Instead your feathers got really ruffled and you decided to go on and on about how TStone and I are wrong and how you are right. You have turned this into some sort of pissing contest. Instead of looking like you have the higher moral ground this whole thing has made you appear to be really bitter and illogical.

So you were waiting for somebody like me to post about the ad? So....you KNEW that there was going to be a reaction to the ad and yet you put it up anyway. That really defies logic. The vast majority of the people who frequent your board think that the ad doesn't fit the site and you post it anyway. THEN you make sweeping generalizations about the people who are members here. Nice.

Plus the super neat part about all of this is that I got banned for 'being a troll'. Um....yeah.......ha!!! This made my morning. Thanks!

Disfunction · 06-01-2006, 08:43 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...epressios3.jpg
This is the gothiest breakfast in my books.

horrorgirl · 06-01-2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disfunction

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...epressios3.jpg
This is the gothiest breakfast in my books.

BUT, are they gothtastically delicious? Hmmmmm......???????

Phayte · 06-01-2006, 11:28 AM

This picture proves beyond a doubt that I was right about Count Chocula!

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1...nsobits4wg.jpg

horrorgirl · 06-01-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phayte

This picture proves beyond a doubt that I was right about Count Chocula!

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1...nsobits4wg.jpg

I actually stored an unopened special edition box of Count Chocula in a storage place where I had to put all of my belongings. When I went to get all of my things out I found that mice had eaten through the box and had enjoyed my tasty cereal. I was devastated. True story. *nods head*

WolfMoon · 06-01-2006, 08:28 PM

Me too...

Sanctus Dei · 06-02-2006, 12:14 AM

This has to be the 2nd most boring thread I've seen tonight, if I wasn't interested in Tstone posting, I wouldn't had made it past #2. But I did.. and holy fuck... *blank stare at G-net*

Sanctus Dei · 06-03-2006, 02:57 AM

Geisha... You're my hero.

Ben Lahnger · 06-11-2006, 06:37 AM

Of all the posts that have been deleted en-mass from this site, I miss Geishagirl's the most.