Bush, pleasing the Religious Right, again

[Magpie_Tendencies]

Originally Posted by Corpsey

a boy "needs a man to look up to" blah blah blah blah blah. From what i've seen in churches, there is a lot of macho bull going on, and the fact that a boy can be grown up in a family without a man is "a terrifying thought".

But the children may still have a father. It's a biological fact that two women cannot have a child together. Somewhere in that equation there has to be a sperm donor. If both parties agree then the child may still grow up knowing their biological father and therefore having the father figure.

*Edit*
Ok, that's arguing the point a bit as you still don't have that exact family dynamic that the church is after but you still see my point.

Originally Posted by Corpsey

I personally think it's bull.

I agree.

[Corpsey]

Originally Posted by Mapie_Tendancies

Ok, that's arguing the point a bit as you still don't have that exact family dynamic that the church is after but you still see my point.

Yeah, i know what you're going on about, but most religious leaders will say that will be the minority of the cases that will occur in these same gender families. It's a fairly one-sided opinion these people have. Ever heard of Brian Tamaki? Look him up on google, and you'll know what type of people i'm talking about.

[Magpie_Tendencies]

Originally Posted by Corpsey

It's a fairly one-sided opinion these people have. Ever heard of Brian Tamaki? Look him up on google, and you'll know what type of people i'm talking about.

I had never heard of Brian Tamaki before until I looked him up on Wikipedia... It's sad that these people are so close-minded and it's even sadder that they are not the minority.

[Child_of_Fury]

Originally Posted by Magpie_Tendencies

You're worried about the children?

Are you worried that they are disadvantaged is some way? On the contrary, there are many children in this position. Most of them grow up to be very well-adjusted adults - and also tend to be rather more accepting of people.

Or do you just worry about them because having two parent of one gender is "wrong"? If that's the case why do you believe that it's "wrong"?

I'm not that worried about how the parents of same gender will bring up their kids, but about how the other kids will treat them. I was bullied through grades 3 to 9 (even though I have both mother and father), and I know that not all are able to get through seven years of bullying. Having gay parents will surely give bullies something to really pick about, and the truth is that both parents and teachers are pretty powerless against those bullies.

That's what I'm mainly worried about. Of course, I won't change my opinion about the gay relations. No matter how hard I try, I can't see it as a natural thing, but I still try and accept them as well as I can. I know a few gay men, and they are very nice people.

[Magpie_Tendencies]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Fury

I'm not that worried about how the parents of same gender will bring up their kids, but about how the other kids will treat them.

Ok, that's different. Because of the comments about gay people in your previous post, I assumed that you thought the parents would be less capable. My mistake. And you are right of course - children with gay parents are more likely to be bullied...

Originally Posted by Child_of_Fury

I can't see it as a natural thing, but I still try and accept them as well as I can.

May I ask why you find it "unnatural"? Is it a religious belief or a personal one? And is there a reason behind it or is it just an instinct?

I'm prying, by the way. I'm just curious, so feel free not to discuss your beliefs if you wish.

[Kari]

Same sex marrige, has already been predicted in the bible. I'm not trying to be religious or anything, but I do not agree with same sex marrige. #1) Two same gender people can not naturally have a Baby #2)And two lesbian woman,...what the hell is there to stick in?

Even if we do try to play god, and make a way where two same genders can have a child, I say that it is very wrong.

[Child_of_Fury]

Originally Posted by Magpie_Tendencies

May I ask why you find it "unnatural"? Is it a religious belief or a personal one? And is there a reason behind it or is it just an instinct?

As I believe I've mentioned before, I am not Christian, therefore I won't bring any religious reasons into my opinions. It's just that nature didn't create two sexes for nothing. One is meant for the other, thus there is a male and a female.

I know I sound a little cynical, but there is still use for gayness. It would be a great weapon against over-population, wouldn't it? (*drum fill*)

[Loy]

Nature also created the appendix. What's its purpose?

[nuksaa]

Originally Posted by Magpie_Tendencies

I had never heard of Brian Tamaki before until I looked him up on Wikipedia... It's sad that these people are so close-minded and it's even sadder that they are not the minority.

Sounds as though Tamaki is in the same league as [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps]Fred Phelps.[/URL]

[Niels]

Originally Posted by Loy

Nature also created the appendix. What's its purpose?

The creation of beta-cells, who are part of the human defense mechanism.

[iloveafi]

i know that feeling, if you ask me, the world freaking sucks!

Originally Posted by Darkfeeling

Everybody sit back, relax, and watch the chaos grow. People are PISSED.

[iloveafi]

i know. really. christ also said not to judge people, which is what they're doing.

Originally Posted by werewolffan98

Why are they focusing on that instead of poverty or helping the poor and what not? sounds to me like they're false Christians,because as i recall christ said "to help the poor and clothe the naked" and that nations that forget the poor shall have gods judgement on them.

Because if they make a amendment based on Christianity then why don't they follow other religions too? like outlawing electricity like the Amish do?

To me it's a cheap and tawdry political trick.

[Magpie_Tendencies]

Originally Posted by iloveafi

i know. really. christ also said not to judge people, which is what they're doing.

Maybe they're not Christian?

Sweetie, you should really introduce yourself before posting... It's polite. We also appreciate capital letters and good spelling.

[Corpsey]

Originally Posted by Loy

Nature also created the appendix. What's its purpose?

Last time i checked, the appendix keeps worms under control. People who get their appendixes removed can have massive worm problems. Can't find a link for it, but i'm sure i heard it on the news a couple of years ago.....

Originally Posted by Child_of_Fury

As I believe I've mentioned before, I am not Christian, therefore I won't bring any religious reasons into my opinions. It's just that nature didn't create two sexes for nothing. One is meant for the other, thus there is a male and a female.

Just because people aren't "made for each other" physically, it doesn't mean that people of the same sex cannot have a mental relationship that is not exactly like the mental relationship's that straight couples have? Are you looking down upon these people because of the act, or because you think such a mental relationship shouldn't occur? I find that if people truly love each other, no matter what type of relation it is, it will be the same as any love that straight couples have for each other, which is what marrige (or civil union) is all about. It's about showing thier feelings for another person, and making it offical to the whole world forever, and this is what these government people are trying to stop. Trying to stop a person showing their feelings to another person, i find disgusting.

Originally Posted by Nuksaa

Sounds as though Tamaki is in the same league as Fred Phelps

If Fred Phelps is against gays, is he stealing money from the people of his church? Did he use the churches money to fund a wedding aniversary, worth approx $40000 NZ, on the Queen Elizabeth II? Did he self appoint himself bishop of his church?
Tamaki is in a completely different league of his own, and is corrupt as fuck. People like him deserve to burn in hell, for tainting god's name with their puke, even if hell is non-existant.

[Magpie_Tendencies]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Fury

As I believe I've mentioned before, I am not Christian, therefore I won't bring any religious reasons into my opinions. It's just that nature didn't create two sexes for nothing. One is meant for the other, thus there is a male and a female.

But homosexuality is thought to be the result of an abnormal chromosome. Following your logic, nature created homosexuality for a reason.

Originally Posted by Child_of_Fury

I know I sound a little cynical, but there is still use for gayness. It would be a great weapon against over-population, wouldn't it?

And I don't necessarily mean this reason. As has already been stated, gay couples can have children with the help of science.

[Snugglekeeg]

This whole gay marriage issue is just a front to keep the masses attacking each other, basically to get the attention on something other than the corruption scandels and all the other "serious" business. They have done the same thing with racism before.

I mean lets face it what is more important, Bob and Steve saying their vows, or the slow formation of a draconian theocracy? It should be obvious which one Im more afraid of.

[Loy]

Corpsey-that's a theory, but it hasn't been proven yet. Nobody is really sure what the appendix does (the rise of worms? Only happens in around 35%of people sans appendixes. Or it did last time I read the AMJ).

[Corpsey]

Loy - Ok, I wasn't too sure if it was correct, it was just what i had heard somewhere. I figured that there was a lot of confusion about what it actually does when i googled it, someone thought it secreted antibodies into the intestines, or something like that.

[Alrek]

Why am I not surprised. The guy is desperate, and it worked in the past. He just wants to increase voter turn-out on this issue in his favor for the 2006 elections, as it increased turnout in the 2004 election in swing states like Ohio. 'Gays, Guns, and God' as it has been said...

[Legion]

And my 2 cents. I was a Marine a long time ago. I went to war. I'm one of those who think that liberty and freedoms are worth fighting over - worth dying for.
I'm appalled at how our government so easily erodes those freedoms. An amendment to the Constitution that restricts freedoms? What the hell? I'm also appalled how easily the public approves these erosions of liberty. 9-11 MUST not happen again, we're told. We must do ANYTHING to prevent it. My answer is...why? Not to sound crass but we lose way more citizens per year by upping the speed limit from 55 to 65. We know this and accept this. Am I way off base by thinking that this proves that Americans care more about their ability to drive a little faster than they do about basic freedoms?
Having been in war, I was willing to die to preserve those freedoms. Is this how cheaply the American public holds the lives of those in the military?

[TheCastrator]

I know I'm begging the question here, but really: your* religion has no bearing on my religion(Or lack thereof). So I don't see why I should be forced to live by rules that you adhere to but I see no meaning in.
Don't like gays getting married? Then don't marry someone who's the same sex as you.

Saying "It's my religion. Things should be this way" is just ridiculous.


And as for gay parents 1) if memory serves, what children need most is a stable loving family, not one mum one dad and 1.4 siblings with little regard as to whether any of them actually communicate with each other and 2) so what if it's unnatural? Surviving open-heart surgery is pretty unnatural, but I don't hear of many people abstaining from necessary surgery because it's 'unnatural'.


I feel a migraine coming on….


*Used in the general sense. Not directed towards anyone here.

[SweetAbsinthe666]

Originally Posted by TheCastrator

Saying "It's my religion. Things should be this way" is just ridiculous.


And as for gay parents 1) if memory serves, what children need most is a stable loving family, not one mum one dad and 1.4 siblings with little regard as to whether any of them actually communicate with each other and 2) so what if it's unnatural? Surviving open-heart surgery is pretty unnatural, but I don't hear of many people abstaining from necessary surgery because it's 'unnatural'.


I feel a migraine coming on….


*Used in the general sense. Not directed towards anyone here.

I agree with it totally. Most people in my life think Wicca's satanic or even homosexually as a moral crime. Even people who are Catholic (no offense to other Catholics as well) say that being gay is a dirty crime. However, homosexuality isn't a choice that will go away once people choose to not have it. Forget about the anti-homosexuality shot that will make you want your soon-to-be girlfriend's melons in an instant. Life doesn't work like the 50's way when you twitch your nose and make homosexuality disappear instantly either.

[CptSternn]

I'd like to state for the record, the 'religious right' of america is just that, religious people in america.

People always blame Christians, or Catholics for these laws and/or views, but if you travel outside the US you will find only the american Christians hold these beliefs and try this kinda of crap. Look at a majority of Europe. A mixture of Catholics, prodestants, and others - all who think the US religious right is feckin' insane. They also do not support the war.

Tis only the view of the US republican politicians that are being put forward. Their religion has little or nothing to do with their views. They merely 'hi-jack' the religious claiming to be a part and write their religious reasons after they have already written their policy, in an effort to justify what they have done with some morality.

Henceforce the idea of the 'American Jesus' (by bad religion).

Only the Amercian Jesus says to start war, kill those who don't believe what he believes, and that its ok to kill to further your countries monetary goals, if they can be found to coinside with some religious reference.

[happy_dude]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Henceforce the idea of the 'American Jesus' (by bad religion).

Only the Amercian Jesus says to start war, kill those who don't believe what he believes, and that its ok to kill to further your countries monetary goals, if they can be found to coinside with some religious reference.

For centuries God has been used as an excuse to kill 'heathens' for monetary goals, in the past it wasn't for morality reasons but because most people were ill-educated God-fearers who would go to the end of the earth if they thought that would please God and gain them entrance to Heaven.
Religion is a wonderful thing as long as it is used properly(which it rarely is).